Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 574 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

     

    I just noticed this.

     

    I think the big difference here is that this year Chicago hosted the age group world championships, and so the depth in the masters divisions was insane.  I have a friend in the M50-54 division who is insanely fast - consistently low 2:3x. (His lifetime PR is 2:19).  He just cracked the top 10 for his age group with that performance.

     

    I literally did that emoji with my eyes getting wide reading this. Crazy!

     

    I do think there's clearly another jump we're entering into post COVID. Your anecdote is fair, but we also saw BQs come down significantly, which is probably a better bellwether than any particular race.

     

    2020 was obviously a dud, and 2021 just lacked people racing. At least around here in NYC, it seems like running really picked up again in 2022 and has absolutely exploded in 2023 beyond what existed pre-pandemic.

     

    So partially the shoes, but also just think a lot more people running.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    flavio80


    Not an 80%er

       So partially the shoes, but also just think a lot more people running.

       

      For the average Joe, it's the shoes. 90% of the people in this thread are reporting how they became at least 5% faster with the cheater shoes.

      There are countless reports online of similar feats.

       

      For the elite athletes, I feel that there's something extra going on. There's a world record every other day. It can't be right.

      PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

      Up next: some 800m race (or time trials)

      Tool to generate Strava weekly

      AndyTN


      Overweight per CDC BMI

        For the elite athletes, I feel that there's something extra going on. There's a world record every other day. It can't be right.

        Lance Armstrong was blowing away the competition back in his day. The only problem is he was competing against 90% of the field also doing similar "techniques" to enhance their performance.

        Memphis / 38 male

        5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

        AndyTN


        Overweight per CDC BMI

          So I went to the cardiologist today. They believe I have Wolff-Parkinson-White pattern, but not syndrome. This is characterized by having an extra electrical pathway paralell to the AV node, so sometimes my ventricles receive an extra signal to contract, resulting in premature contractions which register as "extra beats". Having the pattern but not the syndrome means I don't have any of the other symptoms which include rapid heart rate, dizziness, fainting, and shortness of breath. The cardiologist said it is most likely benign, since I have no other symptoms. But just to make sure, I should have a stress test done to make sure my heart is functioning normally during exercise. Apparently this issue often goes away during exercise. So let's just hope that's the case. In the meantime, I can keep training.

          Good news to calm your worrying mind. I don't mean to scare you by bringing this up but the Ironman race happened in Memphis this past weekend and one of the local competitors went into cardiac arrest during the swim and died. One of my friends knew him and his family knew of no conditions or anything but that it was just a freak situation. He was close to 60 and had competed in endurance events for many years. I am sure it happening during the swim complicated things to try to revive him compared to the run or bike portions. Sure, there were people close by but how are you going to give someone CPR or use a defibrillator while on a kayak in the middle of a lake?

           

          My family also had a long-time friend who ran often and went into cardiac arrest while on a run at a vacation resort. He went into a bathroom at the pool and no one could see him in distress, which is where he was found a couple hours later. He didn't have his phone with him to be able to call 911 or anyone else. This was ~15 years ago so it was before people were glued to their phones but I never go on a run without my phone for this very reason and I have my watch set up to do the emergency assistance feature if I take a dive.

           

          So in conclusion, it is probably a good idea for all of us to go to the cardiologist proactively when we put our bodies through so much stress during long races. People who are sedentary are going to have cardio systems in much worse shape so who knows?

          Memphis / 38 male

          5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

          Marky_Mark_17


            Today I learned that I'm a reptile 😂😂😂 my 10k PR averaged 160bpm, but that was likely due to the warmer weather that day and the big climbs.

            My HM PR has an average of 153bpm -> https://www.strava.com/activities/4982338326

            And my 5k PR has an average of 145bpm with a peak around 164 -> https://www.strava.com/activities/8662162786

             

             

            You're even more of a reptile than my friend! 

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

            Up next: Still working on that...

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            JoshWolf


            Part of TLC

              I beg to differ - Flavio isn't even close to being a reptile if he thinks 18°C is "unpleasantly hot weather" 🌞.

               

              About winning medals at a wide range of distances: Haile G won the 1500m world indoor title 1998 in 3:31:** and set the 10.000m WR four months later with a time of 26:22:**.  No super spikes, no super shoes. He won the HM world championships in his debut at the distance three years later and then finished third in the London marathon in 2002. Quite a feat, but we're talking about a span of four years. So, yeah, it makes you wonder (even though I guess he could've run a world class HM two or three months after his 10.000m WR - that's still not a marathon).

              Don't hurry - next AG will start 2026

              JoshWolf


              Part of TLC

                Since I don't know when I'll be here again - good luck with your dark side stuff this coming weekend, Keen!

                Don't hurry - next AG will start 2026

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                   

                  For the average Joe, it's the shoes. 90% of the people in this thread are reporting how they became at least 5% faster with the cheater shoes.

                  There are countless reports online of similar feats.

                   

                  For the elite athletes, I feel that there's something extra going on. There's a world record every other day. It can't be right.

                   

                  Like I said previously, the faster you are….the more benefit of the cheater shoes…will someone with a goal marathon of 3:30 get much benefit? I don’t think so, but maybe they’ll recovery quicker. I’m only saying this as they feel weird and unstable when I’m warming up before a race at slower pace.

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  mmerkle


                    Flavio That plan sounds good. What I like to do is throw some temmpo work or MP work into my long runs. That will make the average pace faster. Also, in my opinion, if you throw MP work or tempo work in the middle, it's surprisingly easier to maintain a decent clip for the rest of the way. I assume that's a combination of increased metabolism and the nervous system recruiting more muscle.

                     

                    Andy Sometimes shit just happens unfortunately. Nothing is truly risk free.

                     

                    Mikkey I did see this which seems to agree with what you're saying

                     

                    https://digitalcommons.wku.edu/ijesab/vol2/iss14/15/

                     

                    I'm still waiting on a study that explores the extent to which elite runners benefit from the shoes.

                     

                    Looks like the 6 hour endurance challenge is NOT cancelled. This should be interesting.

                      I just came here to ask for Flavios 5k training plan the one that ends with “rinse and repeat” as I want to work on that now.

                       

                      But then seeing the post about Gebrselassie. Saw a documentary last year from a German NPR station (ARD) tried to buy as much EPO in 30 minutes as possible - in Addis Abeba. They came back with 9 vials within 26 minutes. No prescription, no physician, just hard cash ($90 total cost). Ethiopia has never had a proper anti-doping program. Even Kenia is now more rigorous…

                       

                      Anyways, it’s such a shame - maybe some of the athletes are really clean. We will never know. I do believe however that there are more runners now than maybe a few years back and technology and training plus recovery are nowadays at a higher level. The average Joe / Joanne trains in a more structured way?

                       

                      mmerkle - hope this isn’t anything to worry too much about! 

                      keen - good luck with your race!!!

                      HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                       

                      2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                         BTW I'm now 77, so general aging isn't helping matters any. The cardiologist and staff think I'm doing amazingly well.

                         

                        To double down on what JMac said, thanks for hanging around here. It's actually really cool to hear your input on so many different things. It makes me want to be 'that old guy who has good stories because he was busy living life."

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 53.37 

                        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                        Mikkey


                        Mmmm Bop

                           

                           

                          Mikkey I did see this which seems to agree with what you're saying

                           

                          https://digitalcommons.wku.edu/ijesab/vol2/iss14/15/

                           

                           

                           

                          Yep.

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                          CommanderKeen


                          Cobra Commander Keen

                            Fishy - Good luck this weekend!

                             

                            So, are we in agreement that recent marathon world records are sketchy at best?

                            5k: 17:58 11/22 â”‚ 10k: 37:55 9/21 â”‚ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 â”‚ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                             

                            Upcoming Races:

                             

                            ?

                             

                            Friendofrunner


                              Hey! I’m new to this so not sure what the rules/etiquette is. But basically, my friend has been selected to run the london marathon 2024 for the Salvation Army and the work they do with the homeless. She is vlogging her journey on YouTube to help raise money for such a great cause and I’m asking for any support anyone can possibly give, whether that’s a donation to the just giving, a like on a video or a share of her channel.

                              Here’s the link… https://youtube.com/@RunningRosie?feature=shared

                              Thank you, and sorry if I’m out of line by posting this!

                                Mikkey/Merkle I only have ever had one pair of super shoes Vaporfly  next % 2. My rough rule of thumb is for a sub 3 runner they are worth 2 mins in a full, 1 min in a half, 30 secs in a 10k. I think for a 5k probably less in proportion to the other distances. All based off my gut feeling 

                                 

                                Flavio I have a fairly low heart rate when running although for my age probably not anything special. I usually max out at 170 in a 5k. I can run recovery pace 5.30/km at under 120bpm. I run with 2 40 year old guys and they are about 20 clicks higher than me at any given pace. Yours is more in line with a 60 year old 

                                 

                                I cheaped out and got some Adidas SL shoes which are the cheapest of the Adizero line. I got them for $58 US delivered. They are firm but supposedly loosen up after a while. I enjoyed their predecessor the SL20. Just a basic well priced shoe.

                                55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                                " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                                Somewhere in between is about right "