Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 574 times)

wcrunner2


Are we there, yet?

     

    I really wish I could have seen you back in the day. Sounds like you were a really gifted and talented runner.

     

    It was a different world back then. Times I ran then would win many local races now, but I rarely won or placed.  Checking my race log, I ran 45:57 for 8 miles (5:45 pace) and placed 45th.  17:13 for 3 miles got me 18th.

     2024 Races:

          03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

          05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
          05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

          06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

     

     

         

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      man....that's mind blowing. I can't even imagine doing 6:00/mi pace for much more than a speed workout. It's comparable to me hitting ONE 200 meter sprint at the Sub-2 marathon pace. Once. After an extensive warm up going "all out" pace.

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      VDOT 53.37 

      5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

      CalBears


        man....that's mind blowing. I can't even imagine doing 6:00/mi pace for much more than a speed workout. It's comparable to me hitting ONE 200 meter sprint at the Sub-2 marathon pace. Once. After an extensive warm up going "all out" pace.

         

        I think it's just different infrastructure now - I just talked to my friend who is coaching high schoolers  - they just had a meet - 18 teams - most of their team kids finished in low 15 minutes at 5K trail run with hills - it only gave them 2nd place from the bottom . There are plenty of super fast humans around - they just run in their own world - maybe it was different back in the times?

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

        wcrunner2


        Are we there, yet?

           

          I think it's just different infrastructure now - I just talked to my friend who is coaching high schoolers  - they just had a meet - 18 teams - most of their team kids finished in low 15 minutes at 5K trail run with hills - it only gave them 2nd place from the bottom . There are plenty of super fast humans around - they just run in their own world - maybe it was different back in the times?

           

          Cross country was an overlooked or forgotten sport for many schools, and post HS or college there were few opportunities to race except on the coasts.  In Illinois I might have a half dozen road races to choose from within an hour drive for the whole year (late '60s).  When I coached at a small private school in the early '70s, the boys I coached were the ones that couldn't make the squad at other sports or chose to run to get out of intramural sports.  There were only a few schools that had large, successful programs, like York HS in Elmhurst, IL, coached by Joe Newton, subject of the book and movie, The Long Green Line.

           2024 Races:

                03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

           

           

               

          CalBears


             

            Cross country was an overlooked or forgotten sport for many schools, and post HS or college there were few opportunities to race except on the coasts.  In Illinois I might have a half dozen road races to choose from within an hour drive for the whole year (late '60s).  When I coached at a small private school in the early '70s, the boys I coached were the ones that couldn't make the squad at other sports or chose to run to get out of intramural sports.  There were only a few schools that had large, successful programs, like York HS in Elmhurst, IL, coached by Joe Newton, subject of the book and movie, The Long Green Line.

             

            The same now I believe - football, baseball, soccer, then everything else... Of course some kids do multiple sports, but, I think it was the same back then...

            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

               

              I think it's just different infrastructure now - I just talked to my friend who is coaching high schoolers  - they just had a meet - 18 teams - most of their team kids finished in low 15 minutes at 5K trail run with hills - it only gave them 2nd place from the bottom . There are plenty of super fast humans around - they just run in their own world - maybe it was different back in the times?

               

              I can't do what he did. The year it happened doesn't matter to me. His ability to do things I can't, or find very difficult, are what I find most amazing. I find JMac's 2:45 marathon impressive. I find your long runs and recovery/come back from whatever funk you were stuck in for 2 years impressive.

               

              By the way...didn't you have some kind of vitamin deficiency/health discovery about 6 months ago? Has it gotten better? I haven't kept up other than some long winded discussion about muscles and working out about 5 months ago.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 53.37 

              5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

              CalBears


                 

                By the way...didn't you have some kind of vitamin deficiency/health discovery about 6 months ago? Has it gotten better? I haven't kept up other than some long winded discussion about muscles and working out about 5 months ago.

                 

                Nah... I didn't have much of an issue - my ferritin level was very low but my Iron level was good - so, those kind of contradictory things - they say when ferritin low and iron good, it's kind of a warning about potential issue with Iron level in the future - basically they have no clue what they are talking about Smile.

                paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                CalBears


                  I can't do what he did. The year it happened doesn't matter to me. His ability to do things I can't, or find very difficult, are what I find most amazing. I find JMac's 2:45 marathon impressive. 

                   

                  I think he ran 2:36 in 2019...

                   

                  flavio - related to your latest post - just came back from 6 miles run and based on the way I felt during the run, I will make a bold prediction - I have a great chance of breaking 4 hours 

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  DavePNW


                     

                    Thanks all for the positive vibes, sorry I'm being a drama queen.

                    Fishy mode from now till the race. Fewer words, more running 🏃‍♂️

                     

                    Sounds like just a case of taper madness!

                    Dave

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      Yeah. That time he ran with the Olympic Trials Qualification group. It was his goal to run 10 mph for a marathon. It made me want to run 10 mph for an entire marathon.

                       

                      I think he ran 2:36 in 2019...

                       

                      flavio - related to your latest post - just came back from 6 miles run and based on the way I felt during the run, I will make a bold prediction - I have a great chance of breaking 4 hours 

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 53.37 

                      5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                      ch17


                      It's Tuesday every day

                        Hello! Just want to send good wishes to everybody racing this weekend. Go crush it!! --Christine

                        dktrotter


                        Dorothea

                          I've got a lot of circling back to do, including race plans. But now, to focus on the racers for this weekend, especially you, Flavio. 

                           

                          Re Mark’s point: “there's often precisely zero correlation between how you feel then and how you race.  Get out of your head!” YES. I cannot count how many times I did a warm-up for a race thinking it was going to be a suffer fest and I ended up PRing. Actually, I’m more worried when I feel good before a race than when I don’t (with the exception of coming down with an illness, of course).

                           

                          Also, here’s two suggestions (with the caveat that I’m not a sport’s psychologist, nor play one on TV) that may help: 

                          1. ) Since it seems like you’re putting a lot of pressure on yourself, take a step back and think about the worst possible scenario here. You go out too fast (which I think is the only thing that could ruin your sub-3 at this point) and bomb the second half. You don’t meet your goal. You are upset for however long it will take you to get through the stages of grief. No one is going to say, oh, look at him and his failure. It will be: aw, man, he had that in the bag, what happened? And then you get to analyze what went wrong. And then you get to try again, if you want. I know you said you want to get this over with and never think about the marathon again, but you’re still young. Whatever happens on Sunday, it will be okay. 
                          2. ) Come up with 3 things that you did well this cycle that you're proud of. There's a lot of things that we observe about you that we think you can pretty well proud of, but here, think of those things that make you feel like you can look back on this training cycle and say, “damn, look at what I did.” They don’t all have to be time, distance, or workout- based, either. Those are things that you can repeat to yourself during your race like garlic and holy water to ward off the bad thoughts. This is a little like darkwave’s 5 positive things she mentioned a while back, but a little more focussed, I think. 

                           

                          Take it or leave it. Either way, wishing you wings on your feet and a steady tailwind for as long as possible. This goes for you, Cal, Mark, and the lady you’re pacing for CIM, RP. For you, RP, wishing you right words at the right time that will get your pacee to a BQ and you not to suffer through 26.2 after non-26.2 training. 

                           

                          Also I’m curious, for all the racers, what’s your pace strategy going to be? 

                          Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                          Last race: April 28, Glass City Marathon, 3:29:53. Saw deer; cried; didn't melt in rain or heat. 

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                            To publicly identify myself so someone searching me for a background check has a much easier time...

                             

                             

                            https://rtrt.me/ulink/_RT/CRRM-CIM-2023/tracker/RTZ7U8VW/focus

                             

                             

                            DK pacing strategy is the same as when JMac told me what to do a few years ago chasing a sub-3/BQ. Go out at goal marathon race pace. Do not go more than 5 seconds faster, or slower, than this pace.

                            Do not sandbag the hills. As Sage Canady once said in a video I watched...You cannot gain back on the downhills what you lose on the uphills.

                            Hold Goal marathon pace until mile 21 after crossing the bridge. If we can go 4 seconds per mile faster great. If we don't think we can hold 8:05/mi pace for 4 miles stick with goal pace and check in every mile.

                            Swing the final two turns wide (go in high, come out low) and hope we see 3:34 on the clock as we cross the finish line.

                             

                            Nutrition is going to be just as important. I'm going to see when she's eating and push her to eat. I think this might contribute a little bit to her unsuccessful attempts in the past along with limited training, injuries, and just "too much of everything all year long" going into races previously. There could also be some self doubt. Last weekend we did a 5.25 mile run and she always wants to walk this one tiny bit. I wouldn't let her because "that person dies today" and I think just having the extra push to do the extra 1/8 mile of uphill before the long downhill helped her break through some sticking point. If only to show her she can do these things she hasn't let herself do.

                            If she gets a BQ I believe it also gets her a London Marathon entry so perhaps she could do both with one qualifier.

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 53.37 

                            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                            AndyTN


                            Overweight per CDC BMI

                               

                              The same now I believe - football, baseball, soccer, then everything else... Of course some kids do multiple sports, but, I think it was the same back then...

                              I think Cross Country is riding a wave of popularity right now and will continue to grow based on what I am seeing at the youth level. My son just ran at the XC National Youth Championships in Louisville 2 weeks ago and there were teams from all over the country for a youth race, even California and Arizona. My son ran his mile PR in the first mile of the 3k race and was behind at least 100 other kids, some running the first mile in less than 5:40. My son did it just as a fun experience but many of the fastest kids were competing to be in the top 10 in the country, given the willingness of parents to travel.

                               

                              When I was in school, XC didn't exist until high school and by then, most kids were already settled into their favorite sports even if they were fast runners. Everyone thought the kids who did XC were weird/crazy because we all were made to run as punishment in other sports and were soured to the idea of doing nothing but that as a sport. Many people my age played soccer as their number 1 sport and say they ran XC in high school to stay in shape but hated it. That's because running was an obligation and not a source of fun competition.

                               

                              The quality of XC at the youth level differs in regional pockets but I have seen really good examples of the growth in popularity at the youth level. The program we have in Memphis had about 200-250 kids in each race 6-8 years ago and this year there were ~450 boys and ~400 girls racing XC in 3rd-5th grade. Same is true for middle school and high school levels. We even secretly had two 2nd graders on our team this year. The kids are given an opportunity to experience the pleasure of running as a sport before other sports become too intense/committed. And when sports become intense and kids get cut from the soccer or baseball teams, they always have XC/Track to rely on because no one gets cut and everyone gets equal playing time to improve and enjoy the sport.

                              Memphis / 38 male

                              5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Also I’m curious, for all the racers, what’s your pace strategy going to be? 

                                 

                                Forecast is warm, humid, and windy for Sunday so definitely has to be not pushing it early on.  The one exception to this will be the ~2km section up the beach early on which is going to be upwind, so I will push the pace there if it's the difference between having someone to work with and being stranded by myself.  After that it's really just a case of seeing how I feel and who else is around.  The course roughly alternates between downwind and upwind stretches so I'll probably see if I can find a bit downwind and not push too hard upwind.  Very unlikely I'll hit a course PR given the conditions as last time I raced it was in much better conditions, so really just gotta run a tactical race with the overall series standings in mind (this is race 2 of 5).  Lots of varied terrain in this race so having run it 4 times before (and doing trail racing over winter) will help with knowing when to push it and when to ease off.

                                 

                                TBH mostly I just wanna enjoy it though.  This is one of my absolute favourite events, it's a really fun course and I have some great memories there with a couple of wins (including my first half marathon win, and a win in a sprint finish last year).

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                                Up next: Still working on that...

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"