Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Problem Child
mmerkle:
Reading the race report now. Your breakfast interested me because I've never looked into the Maurten Solid 225s. I do a bagel with nut butter and a whole bagel is 270 calories. I've switched to caffeine pills in the morning for marathons simply because someone told me "it's less liquid to fill your stomach, so less need to urinate." Just a piece of advice maybe moving forward. The PB sandwich would probably equate to my bagel breakfast so I just might pick up a bar to eat while I hang out for 2 hours at the start of Boston.
NO WATCH CHECKING!?!?!?!?!?!?! I need to try this one day. Seems so hard though.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who yells at themselves, and curses during races. That's Marathon RP right there.
DUDE!!!!!!!! The boats thing...I was totally thinking that the other day. "Give ME THAT mother fucker!! THATS WHO BITCH!" was my answer.
I swear, if you and I ran the same race together and said these things out loud it would keep both of us motivated when shit gets hard.
Congrats dude. Looks like going out by feel worked in your advantage. Hope I get the same level of awesomeness for my race you experienced.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Part of TLC
[...] (and sorry to conflate AndyTN and JoshWolf - I think that's a party foul?)
[...]
(and sorry to conflate AndyTN and JoshWolf - I think that's a party foul?)
I guess that's what your modification was about? No worries, didn't even notice. Advantage of different time zones. Great RR by the way (as always, I should add). Nice to see that things are moving in the right direction for you.
Don't hurry - next AG will start 2026
RIP Milkman
We should just have a bunch of boat motivational talk. My favorite is "burn the boats", i.e. leave no Plan B in place. It's Plan A and that's it (allows no slacking off in pace). Guilty of violating that one a lot.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JMac you know, a FORMER Thread Director would have the notable and motivational quotes on the front page. This one kind of seems less interested in running this place. Also, there is a plan B? Why did I not know of this Plan B? I feel like the kid in the striped shirt from We're the Millers.
I'm getting WAAAAAY too scared about creating a taper. Digging even more in to Garmin back to my FIRST workout this week I've averaged 60.98 miles. This week has 6x1 mile (11 miles total) and 10M (14 miles total) so I ONLY need to run 7 miles a day the rest of the week to hit 60 miles. Doesn't seems like enough. 1 hour runs, even though todays weather SUCKS!!!!!! I just checked the forecast for Boston (too far ount) again, and compared it to 2019 and 2021 CIM, and it looks like the oven is warming up for a platter of Checkers or Wreckers Monday bru-lunch.
Hot Weather Complainer
I think a Plan B is important - "everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face". B and C goals are interesting and different to a Plan B, I can see both viewpoints. I doubt anyone here would accept a B goal mid goal race until it's too late. Melbourne is an example of that for me. If I had a plan "drop 20 seconds per km as soon as you detect cramp". I would have ended up with a much better time if I'd done that. I wasn't capable of accepting that and paid a big price. Then again, would I feel worse (mentally) if I'd done it? Probably.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Cobra Commander Keen
Merkle - Sub 3 with authority!!! Congratulations. Loved the RR. Also, LMNT! Heck yeah!
DWave - Great job at Cherry Blossom!
RP - Pretty excellent big workout there. Thoughts on switching between caffeinated and non-caffeinated gels for the race?
Andy - Everything has started to bloom in earnest now. I'm sure we'll have blowing clouds of pollen soon, and we're certainly moving towards the riskiest part of the year so far as storms/tornadoes go. Glad you all made it out ok.
Mark - Too bad about not getting in the race. I hope you're feeling better now that it's a couple days later.
Flavio - Killer workouts and some substantial vert on back-to-back days. Nicely done.
Steve - That's a pretty good week with those challenges in the way.
JMac - I'm a big fan of "burn the boats" as a personal approach.
Pretty happy with my week, particularly the workout and then the vert in the LR (several miles of which were completely flat, so the vert was rather concentrated). I took DD1 to a soccer tournament in Kansas City (I'm getting good at this "maintain running while soccer dadding" thing), where her team came in 2nd (lost in the championships on PKs). Fun stuff. Next month I'll be piggybacking off another of her tournaments for my race (though to be fair I signed up for mine before we knew about her tournament).
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Exit my cranial void! This was a thought and I'm trying to find out how long caffeine takes to impact running. I quickly searched the internet and it says 1 hour for caffeine to kick in. SO:
The gel at 24 would be to keep the sugar demons at bay and because I've done it at other races where my stomach wasn't happy so I fed it something to avoid any sort of impending doom from thinking a gel is a waste of money this late in the race.
I took 3 gels on an empty stomach every 40 minutes. Perhaps having something a few hours before (bagel with cashew butter plus 2 hard boiled eggs and some water) would have helped the stomach digest it.
Thanks for the compliments again everyone. Mikkey I take it you like boxing too?
JMac I didn't realize a mild rough patch is normal around half way ish. I too am hoping to be in the 2:40s some day, or possibly even under 2:40. I am still "only" 28. Hopefully my 30's bring some fast times. Thanks for all the training advice and well-placed criticism since I have joined. In fact while we're at it, Steve, my next big foe is 2:50, but I think a good intermediate goal is obviously 2:55.
darkwave That race seems like the ultimate test for the crowd- induced balance issue you have, but I'm glad it didn't get too out of hand. Sorry you just missed the goal. I think that maybe a more low key race might have helped guarantee a sub 70? I hope progress continues. Also dw + Dave + JMac, definitely agree that it's good I figured out execution. That's more or less what I told myself at mile 1; today might not be a sub 3 but if I execute well, then I know I can do it in better conditions. The universe apparently decided Saturday was just my day.
Commander Thanks for the Kudos. And I love LMNT. We need salt!!! Since I started using it, I have less days where my legs feel stiff and crappy.
Fishy Forgot to work in your shout out, but Cliff Bloks fucking rule! Very glad you mentioned them.
RP I am a very regular coffee drinker so it doesn't bother me. It's part of the daily routine my body is used to. I had the Maruten 225 a couple hours before each of my last two big LR's and it seemed to work. Also, I'd love to run a race together some day if there's a way to work that out.
So RP, do you wanna talk about tapering? Seems like a good topic for the thread. As I mentioned on Strava, I too find tapering to be perhaps the most intimidating part of the cycle. I may take this too seriously sometimes, but inside of 10 days, my understanding is there is almost nothing you can do to improve fitness besides speed and strength work, since it only takes a few days for your body to realize those benefits. Just about everything else takes longer to "kick in", so it's about maintenance and staying healthy pretty much.
If I do a gel every 6 miles
This is what I do, and all of them are caffeinated. In fact most are double-caf (40mg). I just assume there's some potentially positive effect, and I haven't detected any negative effect, so why not.
Taper: people say it's hard, but I'm usually pretty freaking ready for it. There are a number of strategies for the final 2 weeks, but certainly the hay is in the barn by then, so there's not much worth stressing about. At that point, I usually just want race day to arrive.
Dave
Maurten gels are at 11.7, 17 and 21.5. So maybe they’ve figured out what I’m TRYING to figure out which is caffeine to get you through the hills.
I usually drink 32 ounces of coffee plus a rockstar so coffee plus 160mg caffeine before 11am.
mmerkle yeah the 10 days to race thing is from Hansons and they say the same thing. I THINK Jack Daniels has a workout at 7 days out but maybe it’s just a tune up. At this point I’m ready for workouts because Tuesday is a confidence boost and Thursday is a chance to try something maybe harder knowing it’s possible to blow up and realize ‘sorry but you’re sticking to the plan.’ Tapering is weird for a Monday race mentally, and with Saturday being a whole day of travel I’ll have to get a shake out in Sunday. Maybe 3-5 miles. Maybe I can meet up with ace or someone else from here. Seems like everyone is going.
davePNW I think I did 6 miles at CIM and ever other time I’ve been successful. 5, at my current pace, just seems too aggressive on food. Especially if I’m filling up with breakfast like a Hobbett.
Well it’s certainly a very personal thing. I’ve just been doing the same thing forever. Maybe I could do something different or better, but when I have a shitty race there are usually reasons other than fueling.
MMerk your progress is exactly why I’ve followed these forums for years!! Hard work and execution….can’t wait to see where you take it from here. You’ve got the sub-3 monkey AND a perfectly executed race under your belt. Yes shot blocks rule!
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Mmmm Bop
How did you figure that out??? My childhood hero was Barry McGuigan (a former featherweight world champ). I was lucky enough to see him fight on 3 occasions at the Kings Hall in Belfast when I was a teenager! His son Shane is a very successful coach which I’m sure you already know. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Gonna be a little tired for the run today! UCONN put on a a show last night... Probably a boring game if you weren't a Husky fan but Just like MMerk and DW a methodical grinding victory my favorite kind!
RP- wish I could bottle up some of your pre-race enthusiasm! You've put in some serious training under some tough conditions and are absolutely ready to crush Boston. Don't worry about the hills ....How many times have you run hills? nothing you face in Newton can hurt you after those hilly/cold training runs!
JMac The burning the ships metaphor reminds me of another movie quote "If ain't first you're last"
Mother of Cats
I think there are three reasons to limit the # of gels you take during a marathon:
1) the need to carry the gels with you
2) the risk of stomach issues
3) worries about consuming too many calories during your marathon and getting fat.
I do think some people worry about #3, but that's stupid.
As for #1 and #2, if neither apply to you, then I think the more gels the better. I think I've mentioned that I've historically been an 8-9 gel marathoner. Now that I'm slower I find I actually need less gels, not more - I suspect that's because I'm now racing at a lower aerobic intensity than I was before.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.