RP-  I'm with you....work is an unfortunate necessity sometimes.

Steve The madness is real!!  I also spent time yesterday planning out my future training/races After Boston is Sugarloaf Maine on May 14.

Commander  Now that Piwi has forced my hand when you get the chance you can update my goal for Boston to sub 3 and Add Sugarloaf.  I'll come up with a goal for that one after the carnage of boston is known.

MMerk-  Your race inspired me to give it a shot! You're making me nervous with talk of 50 milers do not be tempted by the darkside......According to Yoda (modified slightly by fishy):

“Ultra is the path to the dark side. 50K leads to anger. 100K leads to hate. Ultras leads to suffering.”

No offense to my ultra running imaginary internet friends (Krash) I kid because I care!!!

Thanks Piwi! That’s a nice walk you did after your 5k, too. I like the name “Bay of Plenty.”  

Also, I totally agree with you. There is a market for a cap that stores ice, and you can find those (though taking the hat off, dumping a bunch inside and then quickly tipping onto the head again works too—and the hat doesn’t have to be bigger than normal size). You can find bandanas that store ice packs as well. The issue, however, is whether you can find ice, or even cold water, on the course. A cap/bandana with an ice pack put in before the race will be warm after about 30 minutes. During the Fort Lauderdale Marathon, when it got up to 85F/29C by 9am, there was only lukewarm water on the course. I was dumping it on my head/down the back of my neck every chance I could, but it wasn’t enough to really relieve the feeling of feeling hot, especially since it was also humid and there wasn’t a lot of wind. During Hungryland, which is where it got up to 92F/ 33C, there was a consistent (at least every 5 miles) supply of ice, and so I was able to replenish ice everywhere. I found having some sort of tubes to fill with ice and wrap around the head, over the hat, quite a relief. 

Flavio, I would definitely wear some kind of face covering, and I’ve found a hat to be quite useful, especially if it can also be used to hold ice. You don’t want a regular baseball cap. I use this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D12YGRR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What I like about it, is that it's foldable, so when I don't want to wear it, it's easy to hold in the hand or stuff in a pack.

Your head is the most imperative to keep cool, but the back of your neck is included in that, so it helps to be able to have an ice bandana, or even one of those hats with wings that fishers wear. Having cool arms helps too, which is where I second the arm sleeves (again, wouldn’t have thought that intuitively, but it works to both keep the sun off and as a place to stuff ice— or at least wet with water. Having a hat and sunglasses helps a lot with the perception of feeling cooler.  In general, the reason for face covering may be mental as much as physical. Keeping the sun off your face will help it feel less warm, even if it’s not much cooler. You do want mesh things though when they touch skin, to allow for some kind of air flow. That air flow thing is why I can’t wear a hoo rag like RP recommends. Too much fabric. 

The critical part about warm-weather runs is that it’s possible to push through some pretty tough heat, but only as long as your keep your core temp within reason. Once you’re feeling like it’s too hot, you’re getting close to your body wanting to shut it down. It’s almost impossible to come back without a break in the shade and an ice-cold drink…sort of like a machine that overheats. 

Like many things related to the body though, a lot of it is mental.  I’ve never had to cut a run short because of it being too hot, but I’ve had many miserable runs when I wanted to. 

I’ll say there are these tricks for during the race, but it probably makes a big difference if you can acclimate to the heat beforehand. That is, run in multiple unnecessary layers (get used to effort resulting in lots of sweat and not matching pace), workout in a sauna, things like that. I sweat A LOT. Even if it’s not too warm (like in the 60s), my body’s mechanism for keeping me cool kicks in, and it’s pretty well-tuned. 

Hope you’re feeling a bit better about your race, and I like that Superman outfit! Though I also agree that wearing as little as possible should be the goal, too. Quick drying, breathable materials are key! 

I forgot to say this last time but GOOD LUCK to wcrunner and Steve as well!! I had a brain fart and didn’t realize your races are already this weekend. So many race results to forward to. Steve, I’m especially curious to see how you do since you had the coach, and with your PRs, I have high hopes for you. Did you already share your goal? I love that you’re signed up for a few races after this marathon and have goals for those. It’s the best way to beat off the post-marathon blues. Same to you, Fishy! 

Mark, I think for shorter races I do have one goal. For the longer ones, because of how many factors can affect them, I tend to have multiple. But I do best at the ones where I only have the one. That being said, I think darkwave is right that it’s a pretty personal thing. I usually don’t advertise my goals at all unless it’s for accountability. Sounds like your family is all having a rough time of it, especially your daughter. I remember a few bad colds where I lost my voice was coughing at night days. It’s no fun for anyone involved. Hope you can stay healthy!

And Fishy (again :-) ), absolutely, I don’t mind taking it easy with the way the weather is right now, and it will just get worse until around October, when we get a slight break in the humidity. 

I second the latter posts about weather. There’s really no need to look until 5 days before. Anything before that is totally a flip of the coin. Case in point: Hungryland was supposed to be a cold front, into the 60s, 10 days out. It ended up being a warm front getting up to the 90s. Wednesday is when I would start checking the weather and worst-case-scenario planning. 

Re: coss training, clearly surfing and rowing are the upper body cross trainings to turn to in this forum. Darkwave, I don’t know why I thought I saw you and mmerkle do runs after workouts? But I guess a sandwich/alternating is what gave me that impression. 

Darkwave, another good week post-Cherry Blossom. Again, I like the running software metaphor. Good to know you’re getting all the bugs out and it’s running smoother and smoother. It makes sense that a stiff back would limit the stride. Cool that you can consciously make the change to open that stride more. (And ha ha, I had to look the Kotter reference up—not up to date on my 70s pop-culture reference, but I liked the theme!) 

Re Hungryland recovery, thanks for asking, mmerkle, I was actually feeling really good within a week. Too good, actually—legs and aerobic ability felt alright again— and I tried to do a fast track workout, which was a mistake. My knee and biceps femoris are not happy with me now, but it seems I can still run, so I’m just going to have to stick to easy running, stretching, foam rolling, until they stop hurting. Could see my PT, but it costs $100 every time and I’m counting my $s. My HRV tanked early last week and my RHR rose to 8 bpm above normal for a few days, (plus some other cold symptoms,) so I knew I was coming down with something, but then Sunday after the longer weekend run both levels came back closer to normal. So that was weird. But I'm not complaining, because it's nearing the end of the semester and I have 108 essays to grade (and that's before the final papers come in), and I have no time to get sick.

Also, mmerkle, I went from training for a marathon to doing a backyard-style ultra (total of 40 miles in 12 hours) in 2 days. Like, I signed up for my first ultra 2 days before the event, enough time to make sure I had a chair to sit in at the event and make a few sandwiches. If you can do a marathon, you can do a 50k. I also think it will make you faster. Pushing your body beyond the limit of a marathon will make you better at the marathon, in my humble opinion. (We’ll see. I get to test that theory this year). 

And I disagree about the ultras leading to suffering. At least, I don't think it's more suffering than a marathon. Just a different kind. Unless you’re gunning for a certain time in the race, which makes it harder for longer, ultras can be more pleasant. There's a lot more distractions on an ultra... uneven terrain, people willing to chat, etc.  [edited for some modification]

RP, ah! I remember now. Yeah, the last workout abut 9-10 days out was that 10 miles at gmp. You’re right, it’s probably fine. I hated the Hanson’s taper. But I trust it will work for you! Also great birthday wishes from David Goggins. I like the way the guy he read out that text. Also, your supervisor sounds like a good reason to find a new job :-( But having gone through that before, I know how hard it can be to get out of that situation. I would keep looking though, and I hope something works out for you. It’s not good when you feel your job is soul-sucking. 

Piwi - Well done on the parkrun, welcome back to racing!

Flavio - Sorry the heat hit that hard, that's really unfortunate. What is it with Euros and starting races so late in the morning? It makes sense for winter races when temps warming up can be a good thing, but not for anything in the spring through at least early/mid fall.

I haven't had an occasion to use it yet, but a while back I ordered a Sahara hat. Just running-specific ball cap with flaps that come down to cover my ears and neck. Last summer I also became a fan of hot weather-specific long sleeve running shirts. Super-light and breathable fabric, and it keeps the majority of the sun off me.
Both sourced from SOAR. Spendy, but every piece of their kit I've used has been incredible.

DKT - It seems like you're bouncing back from the race pretty well. I'm curious to see how long it takes your RHR/HRV to return to baseline. Partially because I'm curious as to how long it'll take for that to happen after my race.

Steve - I'm glad you're over the cold and working back, just in time, too! Looking forward to that race.
Board updated. While I respect wanting a PR in the 10k TT, that goal is MASSIVELY soft. As is the HM goal, BTW...

Mark - "whatevers"? Running out of inspiration to mock those who use freedom units?
I hope you and the family get through all this illness business quickly.

DWave - Nice recovery week, and I'm (yet again) glad to hear of your positive progress.
I'll be back in your area towards the middle of June. Care for another run?

Fishy - Sub 3? How'd I get sub 3:09 on the board, then?

RP - Your fitness is coming along nicely. It's going to be fun watching Boston. Fortunately for me, my outlook calendar is really light next Monday.

I had another pretty solid week, though I did skip a 13 miler Monday morning. I had no desire to get up early at all (only woke up 10 minutes before work started as it was) after driving more than 6 hours home from a soccer tournament with DD1 (lost in the finals on PKs in their very first 11v11 games).

I've decided to jump into the OKC Memorial 5k the week before my 50 miler. Because the training for those two events is so similar, right?? What might help here, though, is that I'll not only be tapering, but will have just gotten back from spending 5 days at altitude in Denver for work.

Weekly for period: From: 04/03/2023 To 04/09/2023

Total distance: 85.93mi

I've made a mistake in signing up for the OKC 5k.

I thought (assumed, rather) that the race was on Sunday, taking off after the marathon (marathon at 6:30, 5k at 7). In actuality the race is on Saturday at 7.

The issue being that my flight from Denver is scheduled to land at 12:20am Saturday. Oops. 

darkwave What would I do without you? Thanks for that. Erie looks promising. Steamtown looks very fun, but it would only give me about 3 good weeks after to prep for my first ultra. Then again I can tell that I'm starting to recover from marathons faster. And to clarify I do want to run an A race marathon in the fall, ideally a sub 2:55. I think that's a reasonable goal.

Fishy Glad to hear you adjusted your goal. I promise I won't go to the dark side. There's a reason I still want an A marathon in the Fall. My ideal future vision of myself entails a strong, competitive 10k - marathon runner who is also a "well-rounded" athlete. So occasional shorter stuff and occasional ultras... and occasional rowing regattas possibly lol ???

dktrotter Glad to hear everything feels mostly ok. I try to stay away from speed for about 2 weeks after a marathon. And my HRV dropped HARD the past week or so. Probably a combination of recovery from a marathon and lots of celebrating lol. The JFK is a 50 mile btw. I'm hoping that's not too big of a jump. I'm curious about whether an ultra will help or hurt. It SEEMS like it could help in the sense that a marathon will feel much shorter. Curious if the rest of the thread has thoughts on that.

Also thanks for the tips on heat acclimation. I'll keep that in mind going into the summer race series where the races are at 7pm and sometimes pretty damn hot and humid.

Edit: You might be thinking of the time I did a rowing workout after a Jack Daniels workout. That was... an experience. Had me running 9 minute miles the next day lol.

Commander I'm pumped for your ultra. That mileage has got to be a feather in your cap.

RP Sorry the boss is doggin you. You can always vent on here I'm sure. And you can use it as fuel in the latter miles of Boston, if that's your cup of tea. Goggins loves using haters as fuel!

Steve In my super humble opinion, since I know what that PTSD feels like (not as badly as yours but still), try the first half or so at your conservative goal pace, then pick it up a pinch if you feel good, then see how you feel with 10k to go. Finishing the last 10k without bonking is really important to experience! I kept telling myself to save energy for "the 10k race" when I was running Salisbury.

Keen - I had a feeling that one might raise some eyebrows!  https://www.yourdictionary.com/turn-to-custard

I haven't run many 10km races and my current PR was set when the Christchurch marathon was cancelled last year, on the back of one speed session and high volume so it's definitely there to be taken down.

mmerkle - I'm loving your serenity post race, and your long term plan sounds great.  I really think you have the ability to get down around 2:40 if you string a few good years together.

I actually always thought the same, so I did look up the source of that saying a while back but found nothing.  I just asked ChatGPT and got this:

"Turn to custard" is a common expression in New Zealand that means to go wrong or to become a mess. The origins of the phrase are uncertain, but it is believed to have originated in the early 20th century.

One theory is that the phrase may have originated from the practice of making custard, which involves heating milk and eggs until they thicken. If the heat is too high or if the mixture is not stirred continuously, it can easily curdle or burn, resulting in a lumpy, unappetizing mess. In this sense, the phrase "turn to custard" could refer to something that was going well but then suddenly turned bad, just like a pot of custard that has gone awry.

Another theory is that the phrase may have originated from the use of custard as a metaphor for something that is soft and insubstantial. In this sense, "turn to custard" could refer to something that was once strong and solid but has now become weak and flimsy.

Whatever its origins, "turn to custard" is now a commonly used phrase in New Zealand, and it can be used to describe a wide range of situations, from minor mishaps to major disasters.