2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 422 times)

CommanderKeen


Aspiring Hobby Jogger

    Brew - Awesome week. Sounds like the "good" kind of scared on the Th workout.


    Lauren - Great that the taper seems to be doing such good things for you. Not hobbling is always good!


    Wing - I haven't run either (yet), but from what I've heard from locals who have, Dallas vs BCS is basically a wash. Findmymarathon.com says BCS is *slightly* faster, but if you're thinking of going that far south into Texas why not wait another 5 weeks and run Houston, which is a good deal faster than Dallas or BCS? Dallas vs BCS & BCS vs Houston

     

    DWave - Thanks! I am rather happy with the time, all things considered.

    5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

     

    Upcoming Races:

    Dallas Marathon 12/15

    Wing


    Joggaholic

      Brew: Good idea. This weekend's LR will be 14mi so I may try pushing for marathon pace in the 2nd half. I may as well aim for 7:30 pace for a nice round number.

       

      DW: I actually have to look up BCS. It's a marathon at College Station TX sponsored by Baylor Scott and White Health. I'm guessing the B stands for Baylor or Bryan (town name)

       

      CK: BCS is a week earlier than Dallas, so if I fail to BQ there I'll have more time to recover before Houston as plan B

      Brewing Runner


      CIM FanBoi

        wing: Houston is like 6 weeks after Dallas. I've never run two marathons that close together. Is there a point where running Dallas at less than a 3:20 would still require running Houston? For example: If you run a 3:18:19 would you still run Dallas? Running two marathons at BQ pace (at least for ME) within 6 weeks would most likely be a death sentence. When I finished Chicago I couldn't Imagine running CIM and that was something like 8 weeks difference (Chicago is this weekend, CIM is December 8) if I went straight into training after Chicago. I don't know what your marathon PR is or what recent times are. For me a BQ is a PR so this is all I can compare it to. Back to back PRs in 7 weeks without any consideration of the mental barrier to training that would accompany a "not good enough BQ" marathon.

         

         

         

        Anyone have a speed workout they'd throw out there for today's workout? It is the last one of the training plan and it is open to "do whatever one you like/want to do."

        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

        Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

        Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

        *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

         

        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

         

        JMac11


        Benevolent Leader

          Anyone have a speed workout they'd throw out there for today's workout? It is the last one of the training plan and it is open to "do whatever one you like/want to do."

           

          So what do you want to do? R, I, T, or M work?

          5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

           

          Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

          kcam


            wing: Houston is like 6 weeks after Dallas. I've never run two marathons that close together. Is there a point where running Dallas at less than a 3:20 would still require running Houston? For example: If you run a 3:18:19 would you still run Dallas? Running two marathons at BQ pace (at least for ME) within 6 weeks would most likely be a death sentence. When I finished Chicago I couldn't Imagine running CIM and that was something like 8 weeks difference (Chicago is this weekend, CIM is December 8) if I went straight into training after Chicago. I don't know what your marathon PR is or what recent times are. For me a BQ is a PR so this is all I can compare it to. Back to back PRs in 7 weeks without any consideration of the mental barrier to training that would accompany a "not good enough BQ" marathon.

             

             

             

            Anyone have a speed workout they'd throw out there for today's workout? It is the last one of the training plan and it is open to "do whatever one you like/want to do."

             

            Very doable.  This was 5 weeks apart ... and the CIM race turned into a new PR for me.  I had been running 60 - 80 miles per week prior to Si Valley and in the 5 weeks between the races I ran:

             

            Si Valley

            Week 1: 13.9 miles (could barely run at all)

            Week 2: 75 miles (Long run 21 miles and a 6x1600 @6:30 workout)

            Week 3: 61 miles (Long run 20 miles)

            Week 4: 60 miles (Long run 18 miles and 6X2@6:35) That 6X2 was a mistake, should have only run 3X2 but I misunderstood my running mentor's instructions!  LOL!  Mighta run CIM faster if I'd done 3X2?!

            Week 5: 26 miles (12 mile tempo run)

            CIM

            12/7/2008

            Cal International Marathon

            Race 26.2 mi 6:42 2:55:36
            10/26/2008

            Silicon Valley Marathon

            Race 26.2 mi 6:50 2:59:08

            PRs

            Brewing Runner


            CIM FanBoi

               

              So what do you want to do? R, I, T, or M work?

               

              R or I work most likely. What kind of pain can you bring into my life tonight? It should be warm and windy, but also dry.

               

              kcam impressive. I'd think such a close marathon cycle would be the opposite result (2:55, then 2:59). Everyone is different which makes figuring out this running thing challenging.

              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

              Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

              Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

              Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

              *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

               

              2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

               

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                 

                R or I work most likely. What kind of pain can you bring into my life tonight? It should be warm and windy, but also dry.

                 

                 

                What are you trying to accomplish with the workout?  Sharpening?  Strength?

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                Brewing Runner


                CIM FanBoi

                   

                  What are you trying to accomplish with the workout?  Sharpening?  Strength?

                   

                  Hanson plan says speed. I've done 400s up to 1600s and a ladder. They have like 8 workouts and the last two are just "repeat something you liked" and typically end up being 5k of repeat distance (3x1,600; 12x400, etc)  Marathon paced effort is always Thursday.

                   

                  EDIT: Strength, to Hansons, starts next week with 6x1 mile at 10 seconds faster than M. Should be "fun."

                  1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                  5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                  10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                  Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                  Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                  Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                  *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                   

                  2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                   

                  Wing


                  Joggaholic

                    Brew: Ideally I want to run a PR (3:17:42), which is right about what I'll need to get into Boston. Whether or not I'll run Houston as plan B highly depends on how broken I am after the first race. I tried Houston early this year and I blew up very badly (too aggressive) and then tried Austin (which is hilly) 4 weeks later and that was horrible, so I certainly don't want a repeat of that.

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      My suggestion (others, including Jmac, may have something better).

                       

                      400, 800, 1200, 1200, 800, 400.  200m jogging recovery after the first 400; 400 jogging recovery after everything else.  Start off holding the same pace for the 400, 800, and 1200 on the way up (so something like 92, 3:04, 4:36), then pick up the pace on the way down and go ahead and have some fun on the last 400.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      Brewing Runner


                      CIM FanBoi

                        My suggestion (others, including Jmac, may have something better).

                         

                        400, 800, 1200, 1200, 800, 400.  200m jogging recovery after the first 400; 400 jogging recovery after everything else.  Start off holding the same pace for the 400, 800, and 1200 on the way up (so something like 92, 3:04, 4:36), then pick up the pace on the way down and go ahead and have some fun on the last 400.

                        THANKS! I'm a little scared of what Jmac comes up with.

                        Interesting ladder. I did something similar on a lunch break due to time.

                        I like the difference in this one vs what I just did. "fun on the last 400" could be dangerously....confidence building.

                         

                        wing I had a bad Chicago. I think I pulled the plug around 10 and did a HM PR. FOR ME it was mental, but I didn't think CIM would have been a good choice. I jumped into an April marathon and when that didn't go as planned I signed up for CIM and took a longer break from racing. So I just wouldn't want to see you get mentally frustrated/depressed/in a funk and have it mess up training/race performance because one didn't go bad. Go for broke on the first one.

                        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                        Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                        Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                        *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                         

                        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                         

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          Regarding marathons close together.  I did a long brain dump here if you want to read all my thoughts.

                           

                          The short version is that I think you either need to do the second within 4 weeks of the first, or wait at least 8-9 weeks and do another shortened training cycle.  In my experience and perception, there's a no man's land where the races are far enough apart to lose fitness, but not far enough to rebuild.  You either want to spring back from the first to the second, or have time for a cycle in between.

                           

                          I've done two marathons within 8-9 weeks back to back - the first was Chicago 2016 and then CIM 2016 (CIM was really just an excuse to meet some 3:20ers in person); the second was Boston 2018 and then Grandma's 2018 (primarily because I was pissed off after Boston and my training partner who DNFed Boston wanted to do Grandma's).  I do think that in both, my performance in the second marathon was compromised.

                           

                          However, others have had different experiences - like Kcam.  So take my thoughts with a big heaping grain of salt.

                           

                          It's probably also worth noting that I'm big into periodization and building towards a peak - I do not race at my best year round (which is why my 4 mile, 8K, and 10 mile PRs are all at the same pace....).  By contrast, if I recall correctly, Kcam is more of a "keep general fitness all year long" type.  So that may explain the difference - my relatively poor performances in the second marathon are due to being past my peak as much as exhaustion from marathon one.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          JMac11


                          Benevolent Leader

                            Sorry Brew I got caught up at work and then forgot to reply. Looks like you did something fun. Next time you need the pain cave let me know.

                            5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

                            Brewing Runner


                            CIM FanBoi

                              Sorry Brew I got caught up at work and then forgot to reply. Looks like you did something fun. Next time you need the pain cave let me know.

                               

                              WORK?!?!? Who has time for work during marathon training? Work. Pfff.

                              Pain cave...I’d need to talk to you almost every week for that. Maybe have you coach me long distance through publicly accessible methods of communication.

                              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                              Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                              Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                              Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                              *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                               

                              2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                               

                              JMac11


                              Benevolent Leader

                                Next time you want the pain cave running 60-65 miles a week, here is a great mixed I and R workout. Teaches you how to run very hard when your legs are exhausted:

                                 

                                2 mile warmup

                                5x1K at I with 3 minute jog rest

                                4x400 at R with 400 jog rest

                                2 mile cool down

                                 

                                I find the first 400R to be nearly impossible, but actually gets a bit easier because the 400 meter rests give you near full recovery. Still challenging though, as any 1K repeats are.

                                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)