Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020
Intl. correspondent
Keen - ouch, it looks like the gods of running have not favoured you yet again.
On the bright side with your long weeks you should recover quickly and be back on the horse pretty soon.
Darkwave - Sound decision, we need more people like you. I’ve been saying for a while that it’s way better to drop out when there’s an injury going on.
As it stands a lot of people want to be heroes and end up compromising their training for a long time.
You will live to fight another day and you will not lose much fitness.
Elizabeth - thank you for the great race report. It’s great that you have it on your blog so you won’t lose it if this site goes down.
I’ve started backing up my race reports to google docs recently to avoid that as well.
It’s also great that you have a coach guiding you. Is it one coach through the McMillan site or is Greg McMillan himself?
Would you mind sharing a bit how it works with them and how is your relationship with your coach (how many times you communicate each week etc)?
I was browsing for online coaches last year and Mcmillan was one I was considering before I chose my current one.
Re: your race from my point of view you took great decisions during the race.
I’m not so sure you lacked mental fortitude at the end. Mental fortitude can only take you so far.
Also your heart rate might not be that high due to the cold weather.
You might have been lacking in fitness to reach your goal of sub 90 minutes, though you are certainly inches away from it.
I’ve read about the dead legs at the end of races and not being able to accelerate, to me that happened after a week where I did too much weight training. Maybe you have some space to play with your taper?
Anyway, congrats on a great race, there are many of us here who ran 1:30:XX only to run sub 1:30 months later.
Steve - watch those tired legs and take the day off if needed be. Also if you do take the day off, don’t do yard work
Rune - thanks for dropping by, I’ll make sure to keep up the weight training.
James - LOL on the Facebook chatter, yeah that’s one reason I stopped using it 9 years ago. I still keep my account though
As there’s a Facebook group for my last name and from time to time they dig up more of my family history.
Rakers - great race, I’ll be waiting for your race report.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
On a separate note, can I please rant about Altra? God damn it they're making their shoes narrower and narrower with each iteration.
I had a perfect shoe with the Paradigm 3 and now the 4.5 is narrower and barely fit me.
The exact same thing had happened with the One 3.0 being much narrower. And also now with the Escalante 2.0.
Can a man with duck feet get some wide shoes?
By the way, the paradigm 4.5 are way stiffer than before. It looks like they've placed some sort of plate in the soles, maybe they're trying to imitate the cheater flies or something.
However the end result is a much stiffer shoe, and my feet are now prisoners within without much wiggle room to move.
The one reason I switched to Altras was because they were wide so my toes could move and splay (and zero drop so I could have a more natural gait). I guess I'll have to investigate other models from them.
Flavio - Rant on!! Altras are amazing, specifically because of their width, and New Balance 20 years ago had the same thing going for them. It's unfortunate how shoe companies have to stop producing a shoe when they have a new version, I want to buy the Zante 2 and the Altra Escalante 1s in perpetuity. The only thing that really makes me happy with shoe developments lately is that uppers seem a bit stretchier and more forgiving which isn't ideal but allows me to wear some shoes I couldn't in the past.
DW - I'm really impressed by your ability to pull the plug on a marathon at mile 5. I would have absolutely injured myself.
Elizabeth - that's a heck of a stellar race compared to that 10k 4 weeks ago. You're right on the cusp of 1:30 and you'll get there with a few tweaks.
1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)
My week: I came into this week sore from a race, and by the end was feeling much stronger. One focus I have this cycle is not overrunning my recovery runs.
M: 1200m swim and 20 minute jog (10 minute miles!)
T: 1 hour spin class at lunch, 30 minute run including 6x:30Fast / 2:00 Float. I was super happy with this workout. Paces for the fast average 5:41/mi, the recoveries were at 7:25 and the 15 minute workout average 6:59, right where my LT work has been so I'm giving myself an A for execution.
W (lunch): 1800m easy swim with lots of drills focused on gliding, 30 minute Z2 spin
W(PM): 30 minute jog (9 min miles! I'm trying to be especially careful with not overdoing my recovery runs - but I found 3 easy efforts in a day left me feeling a little fatigue here)
Th(AM): 20KM long run. The legs didn't love this past mile 8 and indeed when I hit the ice covered singletrac at mile 10. I switched to a really slow shuffle to finish up.
Th(PM): 1650m swim including 3x100hard, 1x300 moderate. Felt strong, still have trouble pushing early in long swim efforts.
F: 30 min spin@ lunch, 30 minute jog w/ 4 strides. Mile 2 was too fast as I was running with my son and he wanted to go, so I let him.
S: TRACK!!! Huzzah for nice weather 4x800I, 4x200R (with 400 and 200 jog recoveries respecitively)
Sun: hour of Singletrack running that was still ice covered + 45 minute easy ride with my son.
39miles -- 10 hours total exercise
Track day ... was brutal. Based on my LT work always being right around 7/mile I guesstimated a 48 VDOT and tried to run based on that. However I split almost every 800 92/ more than 92 when I should have been running 96s. Stupid. I ran 37-38 for the 200R work but I always outrun my VDOT R values. Given that my next goal race is a mile, I'm totally ok with those reps.
I'm currently trying to figure out how I'm going to balance running with friends versus training which is always one of the hardest decisions to make. On one hand just running with friends keeps my mood up which has some value but I also only have 7 weeks until my race (specifically there is a hilly 20 mile loop my club likes to run that is being run on Saturday by a bunch of fellow 8-9min/mile easy pace runners). My other decision is how much lifting will I do? This week was highly successful without any but I believe in it both as injury prevention and useful for teaching the brain to recruit more fibers when fatigued.
Problem Child
zebano: You're not the only one. A friend has worn them and swore the pair he has with 900+ miles are much more comfortable and have more room. He took insoles out of a pair and said they were almost as roomy. He has wide feet like you and I've been telling him to try a different brand and try a WIDE WIDTH like an E. He even called the company and they're aware of the complains of the shoes getting smaller.
E: bummer on missing out on sub 90. Win anything cool for first master female? I didn't see anything specifically mentioned and didn't see a photo.
ME: Ran some this week. Weekend was filled with me not making time to do a workout or get the 45 miles I was aiming for. I had to replace the brakes and rotors on my truck (14 years old) so it took some extra time, and priority over running, and combined with the 30f (negative C!) temps I wasn't about to gear up and get out there. Just too busy for everything to get done. Thankfully my "race' isn't more important than getting to work safely and this was a good weekend to do truck stuff.
33.7 miles.
5x1,200m repeats as the only workout.
Saturday ended a 70+ day running streak. I'm happy it ended for a reason other than "I don't wan't to run a mile" and I was busy watching the first half of the olympic marathon trials.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Mrakers - congratulations on the PR. Putting it in your weekly summary made it easy to miss.
Brewing - I think Elizabeth was 2nd masters woman.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Hot Weather Complainer
Ha, got all that done on Saturday so I could sit on the bank at the cricket on Sunday and watch NZ take apart the best team in the world.
I did an easy run last night and was shocked to see some of the paces given how fresh I felt. Legs feel great with new shoes too, may have taken the last pair too far. If Saturday felt like a mortgage close to default, last night felt like a million dollars.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Recovery Phenom
dpschumacher: I haven't seen the marathon boards but yeah, people on the Internet can be annoying I had to step away from Runner's World Online back in 2009 because I felt judged. I realize now it was probably more my issue, but still!
watson: Hmm... now I think I need to go read that marathon thread! It's good to hear that the hamstring is progressing in the right direction. It sounds like with all that strength work you will be able to come back much stronger.
Marky: Nice week of work for you with a good bit of quality.
James: That's so awesome you got to watch the trials. I watched it on TV and it looked insane! You must have had a blast. Those hills looked pretty intimidating on TV and I am in awe of all the runners. My taper was:
Wednesday: 3 x (3 mins, 2 mins, 1 mins hard) with 90 seconds steady jogging in between. I ran them medium hard, at a pace of like 6:35.
Thursday: 51 minutes easy
Friday: 40 minutes easy
Saturday: 30 minutes easy + 6 x 60m strides
This is my standard taper for a half. . . I think the issue was more with my pacing than anything else. I think I will get that 1:30 eventually but I won't try again until November which seems like FOREVER. I agree with you--it's good to have a place to discuss running with people who get it.
flavio: It's great you are up to six days per week now. Very nice consistency for you
SteveCh: Ooooh, that massage must have felt good. What shoes did you get? It's taken me a lot of hard work over the years to have a positive attitude and perspective on my races. The old me would have been really bummed out.
Darkwave: Please keep us posted on the leg. I was sorry to see you on the other side of the fence. Hopefully you give One City another go next year!
runethechamp: I still need to check out that marathon drama thread. I understand not wanting to run in the dark- it's not fun.
mrakers: WHOA-- a 5K PR??? that's amazing. Super fast, especially considering it was part of 18 total. Makes me think you have a lot of potential to still be realized! Congrats.
26.2 x 31 (3:15:34 PR)
13.1 x 35 (1:30:58 PR)
Author of the book Boston Bound
She had to not put too much pressure into the massage but it definitely helped - I've booked in a few for the next few months now so hopefully I don't get close to a wall again.
I use Asics Kayanos - I actually got a few pairs when in USA early last year since they are about half the price that they are here, so I've had them in the cupboard for a while but tried to wait until I was closer to the goal race. A risky move in hindsight.
mrakers - great PR!
This might be useful to some of you -> Strava weekly table generator
flavio: Thanks for reading my blog. I truly love writing and reflecting there and if I didn't have it, I feel like I wouldn't gain the closure I need post race. See below about the coach. I think realistically I was lacking the fitness to go sub 90. I had every advantage: the weather was perfect, the course was fast, I had a pace group, and I felt energized and strong. I wasn't having an "off" day-- I just couldn't keep up! I also didn't have dead legs- I felt really good. I simply wasn't able to get that pace back down into the 6:50's after the hill during mile 10. That's okay, because I spent 3 weeks in January doing no speed work at all, rehabbing my foot. I'll run Boston in 7 weeks and be fitter by then! Thanks again for reading and supporting.
Coach As for my coach, I use the personal coaching from McMillan. I have been working with the same coach since 2015 and I continue to improve under him. When I first starting working with him, my marathon and half marathon PRs were 3:43/1:41. He is a really challenging coach and has gotten me run 70+ miles per week safely, 7 days a week. We use the FinalSurge app, where he loads 4 week's worth of training into the calendar. I go out and run, my Garmin automatically uploads there, and I comment on how it felt, etc. He provides feedback. He's available whenever I need him, and usually that's 3-4 times per week to exchange comments about runs. He also helps me plan out my racing schedule. I highly recommend the McMillan approach for its variety (never boring) and the fact that it gets results.
watson: I still can't make a firm call on if the Vaporflys help me and how much. I ran my 1:30:58 in Vaporflys just last November, but arguably I was in better shape back then because I had been training for 10+ consistent weeks with no break for a foot injury. Interestingly, I ran the Columbus Half Marathon three weeks before Indy, on October 20th, and I got a 1:31:55, which is only ONE SECOND away from what I ran yesterday. And those, too, were in Vaporflys. So. . . then I think, I was probably in the same kind of shape yesterday as I was in Columbus, not in Indianapolis. And I ran the same time in the Adios. The real test would be for me to run a half marathon in 3 weeks in the adios, and see if I could do 1:30:58.
zebano: BTW, love your screen name. I have an obsession with zebras, and so your name is cool to me. Thank you for the encouragement. I was happy to turn my 10K pace into my half marathon pace in just 4 weeks. As I have said before in this thread, I think it's possible to build fitness very quickly if the base is there. It's good that you are focused on keeping those easy runs easy. And I love that you are swimming- it's the best cross training! Glad you got nice weather for the track workout. It sucks when it's windy or rainy for those. I'm excited to see what you do in the mile.
Brewing: Thanks for the support. I was actually second master's female. I was hoping to be first due to the small field size but someone came in two minutes ahead of me. I'm fine with that and would have been bummed if she had beaten me by only like 10 seconds or something. Watching the trials is a good reason to end the streak. Nice job getting to 70. was that your longest?
- - - - - -
I'm living up to my Recovery Phenom title. 70 minutes recovery run today, which ended up being 7.8 miles at an average pace of 8:59. I started out at a pace of 9:30 and planned to stay there for the whole run, but without realizing it, I was in the 8:40's by the end and my legs felt fine. They are a little sore and tired, but it doesn't feel like I raced a half marathon. I'm scheduled to run for 1 hour and 45 minutes tomorrow and it will be interesting to see how my legs feel then.
I'm trying to reconcile how, when I am racing, it hurts SO much and I am pushing so hard, and giving my all, and then I vomit, but then the next day I am running for 7.8 miles and my legs aren't sore. Maybe I have the leg strength but not the matching aerobic capacity? Hmmm.
RIP Milkman
Elizabeth - really good race report. I find mile 10, even without a hill, to be the hardest mile in a half. The last mile is so painful but you know you're almost done. I also find mile 11 to not be as awful, as I do so many 2 mile repeats that I just think "this is a 2 mile repeat to go." But mile 10? The pain is bad and I have nothing to reference.
Anyway, I'm not sure if I recommended this to you earlier, but you should consider Nauzene tablets. I used to be just like you, but ever since I found these, it's really helped with my racing nausea. They're a little hard to get down at 5K or faster pace because you're breathing to hard, but good for longer races.
Edit: just saw your post. If you feel that good the day after a half, something is off with your racing. Maybe it's your stomach slowing you down. The more halves you do, the less wrecked you are, but running a 70 minute recovery run within 2 minutes of my half pace is a non-starter for me the day after the race. Maybe 3 days after, and this is in the Vaporfly. You did this in less cushioned shoes. Very odd.
James - that's awesome you got to see it in person. Those hills looked brutal from what I saw on TV, and I know the wind was bad just from what i was running in up here in the northeast. I completely failed my threshold workout, and it was after just one rep into the wind! No idea how people ran a marathon in those conditions.
Flavio - 6 days a week is perfect. I'm running 7 now and I'm not crazy about not having any flexibility in my schedule.
Rune - thanks for the injury advice. I'm not really sure what exactly it is, but I'm keeping the mantra of "if it gets worse from here, shut it down." Came pretty damn close to doing so Saturday, but then by Sunday I had almost 0 pain in my run.
Zebano - good goal on the recovery runs, it makes a world of difference. I run my easy days the same or slower than I did when I was running 20 minutes slower in the marathon.
Brew - running streaks are silly, glad you ended it.
Steve - do you log how many KM you put in your shoes? I find mine start to feel dead right around 500.
Makers - nice PR! The rule on this thread is you have to write a race report if you PR, so where is it???
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Elizabeth - really good race report. I find mile 10, even without a hill, to be the hardest mile in a half. The last mile is so painful but you know you're almost done. I also find mile 11 to not be as awful, as I do so many 2 mile repeats that I just think "this is a 2 mile repeat to go." But mile 10? The pain is bad and I have nothing to reference. Anyway, I'm not sure if I recommended this to you earlier, but you should consider Nauzene tablets. I used to be just like you, but ever since I found these, it's really helped with my racing nausea. They're a little hard to get down at 5K or faster pace because you're breathing to hard, but good for longer races. Edit: just saw your post. If you feel that good the day after a half, something is off with your racing. Maybe it's your stomach slowing you down. The more halves you do, the less wrecked you are, but running a 70 minute recovery run within 2 minutes of my half pace is a non-starter for me the day after the race. Maybe 3 days after, and this is in the Vaporfly. You did this in less cushioned shoes. Very odd.
I feel the same. The thing is-- I don't feel like my stomach is in distress. It doesn't hurt, and the vomiting takes the form of dry heaving if there is nothing there. This is why I get the sense that maybe I just am not tough enough, or I can't get myself into the pain cave. At the time, it felt like I was doing everything in my power to hold it together and keep that effort level, I did not feel like I could possibly speed up. But then, what do you know, someone is coming up behind me towards the end and I run a pace of 6:20 for the last 0.2. So I don't know if it's mental, or my stomach, or maybe I simply recover well because I run 7 days a week and can do 75+ miles per week with no issues? I don't know.
Here is my HR data:
Mile 1: 148
Mile 2: 170
Mile 3: 168
Mile 4: 169
Mile 5: 170
Mile 6: 170
Mile 7: 170
Then I lost the pace group
Mile 8: 169
Mile 9: 168
Mile 10: 168
Mile 11: 167
Mile 12: 166 (WTF... Push Elizabeth!)
Mile 13: 169
Last 0.21: 169
Average HR was 167, which is the same average HR that I had in Columbus when I ran the same time. But in Indy, I averaged 170.
I don't but clearly I should. I know when I started using the last pair so one moment....
Oh dear. Around 1550km in the last pair, although I only really noticed a change in the last week. Now that I'm up around 75km/week, I'll get to 500km in 6-7 weeks. That seems excessive, did you mean km or miles? Either way, the last pair hung in way too long. I was thinking my new pair could get me to Christchurch on May 31 but your formula only gets me halfway there.
Elizabeth - I'm not a heart rate guy, so I would rely on someone like Mark who clearly has had a lot of success in the half and uses that data. Either way, I don't think vomiting is a sign of completely pushing yourself to the limit. If I didn't have these pills, I would vomit around mile 10 in a half, and I clearly still have 3 miles left to go. Whether you've entered the pain cave is so hard to compare to others. Mark and I have had this disagreement for a while: I consider that I've started red lining around mile 10 in a half, but he usually feels it later. But how one defines red lining might be different. All I know for myself is that if I'm not seriously doubting myself around mile 8, then I haven't run hard enough. It's the same thing with every race: it's usually 3/5 through where I enter my darkest moments because I have so much more to go, but I'm feeling so bad. The same exact thing happens to me in rep based work. For example, if I was doing 6x1K repeats, or 6x1 mile, the hardest rep by far for me is rep 3 or 4. The pain has crept in, and I have so much more to go. I sometimes find the 6th rep to be relatively easy because I know I'm done.
Steve - no, I meant KM. 500 is where they start to go. I will sometimes push it, but no pair of shoes of mine have ever cracked 700 KM. 1500 is just an outrageous number and no wonder they felt like crap! My jaw dropped when I saw that number. Find a good website where you can find your favorite pairs at 30% off when they go on sale and go buy 3 pairs. I go through a new pair of easy running shoes about every other month.