Forums >General Running>Is running killing us?
frankly I can't tell the difference. I had the exact same ratio for surviving runs when I was doing 50 miles a week as I have doing 15 miles a week.
From Joe's linked article - "If we ignore the known health benefits of greater amounts of aerobic exercise, then greater amounts of aerobic exercise don't have any health benefits."
huh?
not bad for mile 25
News flash: Fruits and vegetables are good for you.
I'm going to go sit on the couch, where it's nice and healthy.
And there's usually something good to eat between the cushions, but don't overdo it. Leave some for later.
Latest research suggests that runners die every day.
Examples include Paavo Nurmi, Roger Bannister, Chris Chataway, Emil Zatopek, Ron Clarke, Harold Abrams, Louis Spiridon and Adebe Bikila,
Proof that RUNNING IS DANGEROUS!!!
Certified Running CoachCrocked since 2013
Nurmi's dead? That totally bums me out.
Latest research suggests that runners die every day. Examples include Paavo Nurmi, Roger Bannister, Chris Chataway, Emil Zatopek, Ron Clarke, Harold Abrams, Louis Spiridon and Adebe Bikila, Proof that RUNNING IS DANGEROUS!!!
Umm... is Bannister dead? I don't think I had heard that.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
Ron Clarke's still alive and well.
My leg won't stop mooing.
i think i've got a calf injury.
In the journal where this article appeared (Missouri Medicine) there is also a fairly lengthy "testimonial" article by a Kansas City area opthalmologist, John C Hagan, III, who over the years has done many triathlons and half marathons and at least one marathon. In his own admittedly N=1 study he concludes that his years of running likely caused his atrial fibrillation and highly elevated (CACS) score for calcified coronary plaque. I was thinking of writing my own N = 1 study response to his piece. I don't have the data to write a response to the main research article, but I figure any testimonial is as good as Hagan's. One thing you will note about many of these articles that pop up claiming heart damage results from lots of running is that this dude James O'Keefe is at the root of most of them, and frankly I've become personally convinced that the guy has some philosophical axe to grind and is trying to make a name for himself so he can grow up to be like Doctor Oz or something. This journal article gravely states that, "Indeed, an emerging body of scientific data suggests that chronic, excessive, high-intensity exercise may induce oxidative stress and myocardial fibrosis, accelerate atherolsclerosis, increase vascular wall thickness, and increase cardiac chamber stiffness." This statement regarding the ominous "emerging body of scientific data" carries footnotes numbers 12 and 13 as support, which in turn refer to papers by..... you guessed it, James O'Keefe. So this guy is out there basically single handedly creating most of this stuff. In case many of you were not aware of O'Keefe and the guys in his circle of disciples I would refer you to this as a balancing point of view from Alex Hutchinshon: http://www.runnersworld.com/health/too-much-running-myth-rises-again. You will note that I'm not the only one suspicious that this is not unbiased science. I have a lot of other thoughts about the actual research itself, but gotta get back to work now. :-)
In the journal where this article appeared (Missouri Medicine) there is also a fairly lengthy "testimonial" article by a Kansas City area opthalmologist, John C Hagan, III, who over the years has done many triathlons and half marathons and at least one marathon. In his own admittedly N=1 study he concludes that his years of running likely caused his atrial fibrillation and highly elevated (CACS) score for calcified coronary plaque. I was thinking of writing my own N = 1 study response to his piece. I don't have the data to write a response to the main research article, but I figure any testimonial is as good as Hagan's.
One thing you will note about many of these articles that pop up claiming heart damage results from lots of running is that this dude James O'Keefe is at the root of most of them, and frankly I've become personally convinced that the guy has some philosophical axe to grind and is trying to make a name for himself so he can grow up to be like Doctor Oz or something. This journal article gravely states that, "Indeed, an emerging body of scientific data suggests that chronic, excessive, high-intensity exercise may induce oxidative stress and myocardial fibrosis, accelerate atherolsclerosis, increase vascular wall thickness, and increase cardiac chamber stiffness." This statement regarding the ominous "emerging body of scientific data" carries footnotes numbers 12 and 13 as support, which in turn refer to papers by..... you guessed it, James O'Keefe. So this guy is out there basically single handedly creating most of this stuff. In case many of you were not aware of O'Keefe and the guys in his circle of disciples I would refer you to this as a balancing point of view from Alex Hutchinshon: http://www.runnersworld.com/health/too-much-running-myth-rises-again. You will note that I'm not the only one suspicious that this is not unbiased science. I have a lot of other thoughts about the actual research itself, but gotta get back to work now. :-)
Joe, thanks for this. Here is a TED talk with James O'Keefe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0
This guy if freaking creepy. A snake oil salesman with a serious case of narcissistic personality disorder.
MTA: If you have a link to his journal article, I would like to read it. Thanks.
I was looking at the wrong Ron Clarke.
ultramarathon/triathlete
If running will kill you, then why are we ALL ALIVE?!
I'd go for a run now just to prove how safe it is... but I have a broken hip (from running).
I recently asked my cardiologist training buddy about this whole "running is bad for you" thing. He runs a few marathons a year and says he really does believe it may be bad for the heart (he said something above the right ventricle). Still, on his docket for this year are probably 3 marathons and a lot of other distances, so I don't think he's terribly concerned.
HTFU? Why not!
USATF Coach
Empire Tri Club CoachGatorade Endurance Team
Joe, thanks for this. Here is a TED talk with James O'Keefe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0 This guy if freaking creepy. A snake oil salesman with a serious case of narcissistic personality disorder. MTA: If you have a link to his journal article, I would like to read it. Thanks.
Hey Joann, thanks for the reply and the youtube link. I will give that a look when I get a chance. You know I heard an interesting anecdote about O'Keefe. I don't know if it's true, but a colleague was telling me that he knows a couple of docs who used to train with him. Apparently at one time he was a very good triathlete. As the story goes, he started losing to some of these other guys and got bitter and now he's set about trying to ruin it for all of us. ;-)
I pulled the paper down from here: http://www.msma.org/docs/communications/MoMed/Hearts_Breaking_Over_Marathon_Running_MarApr2014_Missouri_Medicine.pdf
I don't know how long they will have it available without a subscription to Missouri Medicine and/or PubMed, etc.
Why is it sideways?
If not a runner, I should have been a pair of ragged claws, scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
Well, all I know is that all the "seniors' who were in my running club looked damn good, moved well, didn't look creaky, and weren't obese. I compare that to the other seniors I've known that don't run, exercise, or move much, and the difference is so startling that I might as well be looking at two different species. Since I've been running, I've known two senior runners who have died, on was 85 and ran until he was 84—he fought and survived at The Battle Of The Bulge in WW2, you think he was afraid running was going to kill him? As time goes on, and if I live long enough, I will see all of them pass. I've seen some younger runners die of heart attacks, but they probably would have had one anyway.
The two things I think are the biggest things that break down bodies: abnormally high stress and overeating. Even if we eliminate those, we're all gonna die anyway. So, might as well enjoy ourselves in this unique life we're all living. Even if we reincarnate and live multiple lives, this particular experience we're all having is a one time deal, a one-time creation. Soak it up. Make it. Enjoy!
Was he a runner? What a great line.
Joe, thanks. Looking through pubmed I see that he's done some work with Loren Cordain, who happens to have been an instructor of mine at Colorado State and is now apparently into the whole caveman thing. I'm going to do a little more digging. These caveman/neanderthal dudes seem to have a thing against endurance sports. I don't know. If it's a full vigorous life of motion and curiosity for 75 years vs a life of moderation and fear for 80 years, I'll take the former.