Flying Pig in Cincinnati (Read 850 times)

That is awesome PerfesserR. Congrats on the new PR. Are you doing anymore Marathons this year.

Bearcat: Make your log public. You'll get all the help you need. You really and convincingly ran into that wall at 23, didn't you? Ouch on those last 2-3 miles. Fixing that'll be your first step on your road to that 3:20:59. I definitely think you'll have to experiment with nutrition during the race. Did you eat nothing at all? Did you take energy drinks and/or Gatorade? Finding what works for you in that department will likely allow you not to so dramatically slow down. Ask Trent to repost the oft-reposted info on glycogen. It explains pretty well why you need to take in something. Just my experience, but in good marathons - I finish feeling almost full. Seriously. I'll bet I took in 1000 calories (or more) at the CMM. I wasn't even hungry afterward. By contrast, after last years disaster I was starving. Finding that balance seems important. But the obvious thing in your splits is those first 5 miles. Just taking a guess, but I think if you did absolutely nothing different next time except went out 15-30 seconds per mile slower - you'd shave 10 minutes off your time pretty easily, and avoid that March o' Death in the last couple miles.

Jake, here are my splits: MILE TIME LAP PACE CUMULATIVE PACE 06.8-----------0:58:33---------08:37-----------08:37 12.0-----------1:42:34---------08:28-----------08:33 13.1-----------1:51:28---------08:05-----------08:31 19.3-----------2:42:38---------08:15-----------08:26 26.2-----------3:39:14---------08:12-----------08:22 the third segment had the best bands!

How did you get these data? Cool! Bearcat, I have been swamped, but I have an extensive answer to your nutrition question. Miles 20+ are hard for everybody and training and miles are only part of the equation. Long story short, though, when you slow down in the last miles it is typically a combination of inadequate glycogen (either because you ran too hard in the first miles or because you did not eat enough leading up to the run) and inadequate miles in training (although not necessarily inadequate long runs). In the meantime, check this: http://runningahead.com/forums/post/ed7f3851dcfb40fcb1f6bd1a628dd34d#focus

Sorry I thought they were public. They now are. So will the bonk affect your legs and feet like they did mine. I had not felt this kind of pain since the previous year when trying to run 26 miles a month and half before the flying pig. Being the idiot I am I wanted to make sure I could actually run that far before the race. Felt good the first 13 but when I turned around and hit mile 17 this same pain hit me and had to stop and walk at mile 18.5. That was a painful 8 mile walk. I took gatorade in during the race as the need hit me. I tried to do every other station. I did not take any cliff shots or anything else. I worried about upsetting my stomach too much. Don't you worry about that? I honestly wish I could run this race again in a month with these same weather conditions. I know I can do better if I ran smarter. Thanks to all of you for trying to understand what I did wrong. I am starting to think it wasn't so much my training but maybe what I did during the race. Can any of you tell me what you usually eat the few days before a race. I have heard that the Friday night meal is the most important. I ate a big meal on Friday night and a big meal Saturday morning. A medium sized meal for lunch and dinner. I did not eat anything after 8pm. I also ate a bananna and a half around 4:30 and drank a large gatorade to get some carbs in me.

Bearcat, pain and weakness in the legs is about exhaustion. A bonk is when you run out of glycogen, and that effects how you feel from head to toe (usually you feel like you just want to lay down and die). So if you felt pain and weakness in your legs, I would not really consider that a bonk. The best way to prevent exhaustion is a good base of a lot of aerobic miles combined with good recovery. Also, it is reasonable to take it a bit easier on the uphills and, more importantly, on the downhills. Taking grades hard can exhaust your muscles to where they are too tired for flat segments, such as what you saw at the end of Pig.

The leg muscle pain is usually the worst at day 2. Today, my friend, is day 2 Things should improve tomorrow. Nurse that ankle, but do keep moving.

Can any of you tell me what you usually eat the few days before a race. I have heard that the Friday night meal is the most important. I ate a big meal on Friday night and a big meal Saturday morning. A medium sized meal for lunch and dinner. I did not eat anything after 8pm. I also ate a bananna and a half around 4:30 and drank a large gatorade to get some carbs in me.

I PR'ed and qualified for Boston at my last marathon, which was my third attempt. I learned lots from my first two marathons. For the first one (Towpath marathon), I didn't eat much the evening before the race (too many logistical problems) or the morning of (too nervous - first marathon). I also didn't eat anything or dirink much during the race (too stupid). Also, my peak mileage was only about 40 a couple weeks before the race. I bonked real bad at mile 18. Preparing for the second race (Detroit marathon), I increased the mileage and ran a few more 20's. The night before the race, I ate a huge meal - mostly spaghetti, then ate 2 bananas and toast race morning. I also had started using GU on my long runs, which helped dramatically, and ate four of them during the race. I was doing well at 20 miles into the race, ahead of BQ pace, but my calves cramped up and I struggled in and just missed qualifying by 39 seconds. I look back and realize I didn't take in enough fluids during the race. The water stations were difficult to get to in the early miles. For the third race (Athens marathon - a small race), I increased my mileage and ran more longish tempo runs. The morning of that race, I ate three bagels, a Powerbar, and a couple bananas, and washed everything down with plenty of water. That was two hours before the start. Then right before the start, I ate another banana. During the race, I also ate four GUs,and my wife was able to hand me water bottles every 3-4 miles so I had plenty of fluids. I ran really well for about 20, but slowed down the last 4-5 miles. I didn't bonk completely, but it was a struggle to finish nonetheless. Still I was able to qualify (3:34 and change; 3:35 was my BQ time). The moral of my story is more mileage, with some longish speed/tempo work thrown in 1-2 times a week, and drink and eat lots before and during the race. I also chose a smaller race for #3 since I could focus on my pace/running, not worry about other runners cutting me off or tripping me, and could get fluids. I still don't have it figured out completely, though, and feel I can run faster.