Sub 3 How many miles per week? (Read 2477 times)

    At any rate I think you're looking at it backwards.  People who try to guesstimate the minimum mileage it would take to run "x" time usually come up short.  A better way to approach it would be to decide how much you are able/willing to train, and see what that gets you.

     +1

     

    But I would like to go out on a limb and point out how fkg annoying it is for you to put in such little mileage and get that kind of time.  I wish wish wish I could obtain that one day.  I'd be happy with the time you've already achieved. 

      How much mileage do the established running coaches/scientists recommend that runners do if they are to break 3 hours for a marathon? Of course, it is very individual and also dependent on age, gender, natural ability and for how long you have been running. I have increased my mileage quite a bit recently to see if this can make me go sub-3 Smile

       

      In Jack Daniels, Pfitzinger, Hudson and so on I don't see any exact recommendations on mileage to go sub-something. Do you know of any studies with the impact of increased mileage?

       

      Good luck.

        Picking a mileage number out of thin air in order to run some sort of race time, also plucked out of thin air, is pretty much a direct path to all sorts of bad crap.


        just a simple cat

          73.4 miles per week in order to run 2:59:57

           

          ..........or what Jeff said.    Big grin

           

           

            I certainly wouldn't know how to answer the question pabstars posed, but...

             

            Here is an interesting read on training volume based race prediction.  Taking those ratios based the 10k time that McMillan predicts for a 3 hour marathon, gives a pretty wide race performance range.  These ratios indicate that (on average) marathon times benefit greatly from increasing the mileage base up to around 55-60mpw, beyond which diminishing returns are heavy.  FWIW, McMillan's marathon time would coorelate to around 70-75mpw, based on these figures.

             

            While YMMV, maybe it is at least instructive data...

             

            <colgroup> <col span="4" width="86" /></colgroup>
            Weekly 10k 10k to Mar Marathon
            Mileage Time Multiple Time
            30-35 38:20 5.5 3:31
            40 38:20 5.0-5.3 3:12-3:23
            55 38:20 4.9 3:08
            60 38:20 4.75-4.85 3:02-3:06
            70 38:20 4.7-4.8 3:00-3:04
            80-100 38:20 4.55-4.65 2:54-2:58

             

            MTA:  nevermind.  just go with what Ileneforward said.  73.4

            2014 goals:   •  1st Marathon  •  3,000 miles

            xor


              Man, I wish I could run a 38:20 10k off 30 mpw.  Or a 3:12 full off 40.  Ah well.

               

                Jim2 lives on, and continues to provide wisdom.  Good stuff.

                Runners run.

                  Man, I wish I could run a 38:20 10k off 30 mpw.  Or a 3:12 full off 40.  Ah well.

                   

                  I think 38:20 was the input.  Which gets to the basic point that the number of miles needed to run a sub-3 depends heavily on where you're starting from--in both natural talent and training history.

                  Runners run.

                  xor


                    I think 38:20 was the input.  Which gets to the basic point that the number of miles needed to run a sub-3 depends heavily on where you're starting from--in both natural talent and training history.

                     

                    Si, I understood that.  they are just two lines in that table that make me wistful.

                     

                    Of course, lately I am wistful for my 90+ mpw, which I haven't been able to do in almost 5 months. 

                     

                    Wistful is a weird word if you stare at it too long.

                     

                    Oh, I guess I could try a sub 20 5k on 5 mpw.

                     


                    ultramarathon/triathlete

                      I certainly wouldn't know how to answer the question pabstars posed, but...

                       

                      Here is an interesting read on training volume based race prediction.  Taking those ratios based the 10k time that McMillan predicts for a 3 hour marathon, gives a pretty wide race performance range.  These ratios indicate that (on average) marathon times benefit greatly from increasing the mileage base up to around 55-60mpw, beyond which diminishing returns are heavy.  FWIW, McMillan's marathon time would coorelate to around 70-75mpw, based on these figures.

                       

                      While YMMV, maybe it is at least instructive data...

                       

                      Weekly 10k 10k to Mar Marathon
                      Mileage Time Multiple Time
                      30-35 38:20 5.5 3:31
                      40 38:20 5.0-5.3 3:12-3:23
                      55 38:20 4.9 3:08
                      60 38:20 4.75-4.85 3:02-3:06
                      70 38:20 4.7-4.8 3:00-3:04
                      80-100 38:20 4.55-4.65 2:54-2:58

                       

                      MTA:  nevermind.  just go with what Ileneforward said.  73.4

                       

                      Is there a website that spits this out for people?  I'd like to give it a shot.  I didn't see it in the link you posted, but I admit I just briefly scanned it.

                      HTFU?  Why not!

                      Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                      Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club

                        Not that I've looked, but I haven't run across any.  Excel was my weapon of choice.

                        2014 goals:   •  1st Marathon  •  3,000 miles

                        Adam_runbyfeel


                          Don't do it by mileage.  do it by time.  build up to doing this for 3 months:

                           

                          monday 1 hour

                          tuesday 90 minutes

                          wednesday 1 hour

                          thursday 100 minutes

                          friday 45-50 minutes

                          saturday 75 minutes

                          sunday 2 hours 15 minutes

                           

                          second 3 months:

                           

                          monday 1 hour @ 80% heart rate max

                          tuesday 90 minutes @ 65-70% heart rate max

                          wednesday like monday

                          thursday 100 minutes @ 65-70% heart rate max

                          friday 45-50 minutes jog

                          saturday 75 minutes @ 82% heart rate max

                          sunday 2 hours 15 minutes 65% heart rate max

                           

                          ´╗┐once you can do this run the shorter days steady, a little harder than easy running.  When you can run the shorter hard days @ 6:30 pace then you will break 3 hours.  There is tons of physiological data out there on why this works.  If you are interested I will tell you what to read.

                           

                          Barring any truly handicapping aspects it will take 3 months to build the time up, and 3 months to work the pace down, 6 months total.  No speed work.  Yes, it is that simple.  

                           

                          If you have never broken 3 hours the time amount should equate to 60 miles per week at the beginning, then above 70 towards the end.  You will cover more distance in the same time as you get fitter.

                           

                          Oh, and those prediction tables won't do you any good if you don't train properly for the distance you want to race.  For example I have run a 2:34:45 marathon but have never come close to breaking 16 minutes for the 5k.  But since this is a thread about breaking 3 hours for marathon I'll just say run a lot, no speed work!  When you can run 90% of your max heart rate for 1 hour you are ready. 

                          cbatch


                            I broke 3 hrs last fall on about 40-45 mpw, with a couple of peak weeks around 50 mpw.  It's basically all I have time for.  But I HIGHLY recommend the Hanson-Brooks training plan.  I've used Hal Higdon's plans on some prior marathons with success, but the Hanson-Brooks plan really focuses on speed and pace, which I think is more important to running fast marathons than simply logging a bunch of miles.  Quality over quantity, if you will.  Of course, this plan may not work for everyone, but it's the best one that I've tried.

                            Adam_runbyfeel


                              Hansons is virtually the same schedule prescribed above, all based on the training of Arthur Lydiard, except by a prescribed pace.  There program works, but there is more you need to know to train efficiently.  Again, read Healthy Intelligent Training.  To arbitrarily follow a schedule by pace without knowing your current fitness level is a recipe for disaster. 

                              A good example on why you should not solely train by pace or by mileage is that here in the North East it is in the 40-60's.  My current pace at 80% of my max heart rate (look at my training in February) is between 6 and 6:30 per mile.  If I were to do the same run, at 80% of my max in the summer the pace would be 10-20 seconds slower depending on how hot it is out.  So, should I be pushing harder?  No!  I need to acclimate my body/heart to running at a high aerobic effort, above 80% of my max and below 92% of my max for an hour.  Start at 80% and work it up to 92%.

                                pibstar, thanks for your input. Basically, my plan resembles what you suggest, except for your use of minutes and not mileage. After the increase of mileage a couple of weeks ago, I have removed interval sessions as I'm afraid that they will be too big a strain on me. Still do some LT training once a week in my running club and a few progressive  runs.

                                 

                                Instead of using heart rate max, I assume that one could use paces in the last 3 months of the plan; that is, after 3 months of approximately 60 miles a week, participate in a run and use the VDOT value to decide the pace, just like in Daniels' Running Formula.

                                 

                                8 years ago I ran my fastest marathon in 3.08 on a little less than 50 MPW with 4 months training. I'll soon be 47 and I'm a slower runner now but by increasing mileage/time used on running, I believe that it is still possible to give a shot to improve my PB.