Question for those of you who ran in college (Read 883 times)

Do you have any words of advice for my son as he looks at colleges? So far, we're just comparing his times to the younger kids on each team and talking to the coach. Are there specific questions we shoud be asking or certain things to consider? He's our oldest, so the whole college search thing is freaking me out enough as it is! I think he's fast enough to be recruited by DIII schools, but probably not fast enough for DI. A couple of coaches told him he probably will improve a lot, because he still looks very young - he's obviously going to mature and grow more (he's currently 5'-6" and 110 pounds and looks more like 15 than almost 17). Any other advice you have for college running would be much appreciated, too. He's a very driven runner. He also makes excellent grades, so the academic piece should not be a problem for him. I should add he's also said he would rather be one of the slower kids on the team, because he's so competitive that that's how he improves. He liked Susquehanna University's facilities and coach, but he would start out as just about the fastest runner as a freshman, so he's not sure how he feels about that. Thanks!!

The track and XC program is obviously just one piece of this. Jeff's experience is that of someone for whom a tiny, elite, liberal arts college in the Berkshires was a good fit. There's also the quesiton of what kind of academic programs he's looking for, whether he'd prefer a large school to a small one, an urban campus to rural, etc. So my advice would be to chose a school you would still want to go to even if you couldn't run.

The relationship with the coach is crucial so, as best you can, try to determine if his personality and coaching philosophy are what your son wants. The best information is gained simply by talking to him and having him show you his training plans for the past year. This can then be confirmed with the other student-athletes. As Jeff points out, it's very healthy to have a perspective on where running fits into your son's life and to balance that with the college program that best fits. I'll say the difference between DIII and DI can be razor thin so eliminating one because he's not fast enough or purusing the other because you think he'll be challenged more is not always accurate. Good luck.

Teresadfp- Couple questions - what year is your son in and what are his times now? It is great you are doing this. My parents had no clue about athletics, half the time wondering why I found it so important. They did go on some campus visits with me and talked to a coach or two, but had no idea which questions to ask. I could have used a little more guidance. You said your son is a very driven runner and has good grades. Very similar to me. Both of these traits will help him greatly in whatever college he attends, both academically and athletically. I agree with Jeff's point about keeping the running in perspective with the academics. It also sounds like Jeff had a very good coach. I attended Mt. St. Mary's in Emmitsburg, MD. It was Division 1 but a smaller conference. Great academics. I was 4:45 mile/17's for 5K/29-30 for 8K which were not D1 caliber. I enjoyed the team and liked the coach (who has since moved on). I regularly got killed in competition especially in track - finished last a bunch of times, but we ran against some of the bigger competition at the time - some of the larger invitationals in both cross country and track - dual meets versus the Naval Academy, even one with Villanova. We were in a rebuilding phase - I quit during my junior year but by then they had a very competitive team that was winning the conference meet (we were 8th/10 my freshman year). We had a Kenyan on the team who broke 30 for 10K but my freshman year I wasn't even the slowest guy on the team and ran over 30 minutes in several cross country races. But by senior year they had a few guys under 15 in 5K. They've since backed off that rigorous a season. I liked the coach enough and was so driven that it was still hard for me to quit the team even when I was constantly injuried and had completely lost momentum. It was also my personality - I knew I was going to put in the work, the coach could trust me to do so, and I was basically just given guidelines. I didn't ask him for much and being one of the slowest guys on the team, didn't feel at the time like I should ask for too much. But when I quit the team, we had a nice talk and he told me when he brings other runners into his office because they were "being bubbleheads" (screwing around) he used me a lot as an example of someone with the right attitude and that they would go further if they focused like I did...I never knew that until the day I quit. But other runners had - and required - more oversight. The coach was not afraid to kick a talented athlete off his team for failing classes, getting in trouble, etc. Had I gone to a D3 school and had more people to run distance runs with, I may have had more success running. But it was a tremendous experience despite my lack of success, and I made a couple friends on the team that I still have today. Going to Mt. St. Mary's also allowed me to start playing hockey after I quit the team and I helped start a hockey club that is still going strong today. While it was in a rural location and you had to drive to do much of anything, it was a good place to focus and develop. I would not trade in the experience today at age 34 - I would have just made some adjustments to how I trained and approached things. *Note* - If your son is under 4:30 for the mile and under 16 for 5K he should at least be in the pack most places (including MSM) have now. He won't make D1 nationals but he will be competitive. The IC4A standards are something like 4:13 and 14:45 in track - if he's approaching these when in college then he definitely is in the thick of things. I think the mile was 4:17.00 in indoor track; I remember one guy making it by a few hundreths. They may have adjusted these standards, but these were the main targets for the guys on my team, and probably the line between "trying to keep up" and "keep up with me if you can" in D1. For D3 you have to really look at what the school and program has because its more hit or miss. There are plenty of very talented runners in D3, especially now. I agree if he is driven he will not go well going in as top dog - nothing to shoot for. He'll end up running by himself a lot, get bored, and lose motivation. If the school has a good distance program and an attentive, caring coach, he should find himself in a good group who will help him continue to improve. My friend had a great experience with Elizabethtown College in central PA. That was a D3 school and he went to the nationals. He had a lot of respect for his coach. He was under 4:10 in the mile by the end and still had people on his team to run with, especially in cross country when those distance runs can be long if you're alone all the time. He graduated in 2001 and is now a PT. That was a great example of a D3 program - meanwhile, other D3 schools in the area were lucky if they had one guy break 30 minutes in cross country...not a good place for your son. Another friend who went to a D1 school didn't have a good experience. He eventually had to figure out everything on his own because his coach really didn't help. He had a couple of guys to run with and he was competitive (26-flat in XC, 4:13 miler) but he didn't develop as much nor did he seem to enjoy his experience as much as the guy who went to Elizabethtown. But he did get a full scholarship with a 4:24 mile and 16-flat cross country in high school...back in the early 90s it wasn't nearly as competitive as high school seems to be today. His free ride for athletics allowed him to finally straighten himself out academically and he's now a teacher. For you, I recommend: 1. Sitting down with each coach face to face (with your son). Ask about his qualifications, if he runs/ran competitively as well. Ask him about his expectations - mileage, practices, meets. Ask him how academic expectations rank in his mind and how he reacts to them. Ask how he sees the school's values and how they translate to his directing the team. 2. Ask about his goals for the team. See if they include things other than race times i.e. mileage per week, pace of runs, how closely he supervises the training runs, whether they are expected to run as a group or if they are trusted to get in training runs alone, how he would counsel a runner who was struggling with adjusting to college life or training or himself. 3. See the campus. See what the college offers outside of classes - events, concerts, clubs, etc. Ask the kids on the team what they do on weekends (if they do nothing but go clubbing or they sit in their rooms and drink all weekend - not good). If possible, have your son spend a night or two there on a recruiting visit so he can see firsthand. 4. After each visit, ask your son how he feels about the school. What did he think about the campus? Academic programs? The coach? Other guys on the team? Get him to rank them in his mind. For your son, I recommend: 1. Visiting the school first, overnight with someone on the team if possible. Don't decide sight unseen. 2. Look at the facilities it has and the area its in. Does it have a training staff? What does the team have? Where are training runs done? Can you run off campus and not get mugged or hit by cars? 3. Continue to compare your times up against the other guys on the team, especially the ones who will be upperclassmen his freshman year. He doesn't want to be top dog nor lagging behind. If he can get in as #5 out of 7 on a cross country team, great, it gets him competing and gives him something to shoot for. 4. Don't be afraid to ask the coach serious questions - like his philosphy on training, mileage expectations, how he tailors individual expectations, give him some insight on your (meaning the son's) personality and ask the coach things he would do to develop someone with that personality. 5. Most importantly - talk to guys on the team. This is why an extended visit would be helpful. Ask them how they like the school and the coach, what the team does on its free time, see their attitude and perspective. You want a group that is motivated and meshes well with your son's personality. I know this is a novel but this question hits very close to home. Please feel free to ask me anything, and good luck! -Kevin

So my advice would be to chose a school you would still want to go to even if you couldn't run.

That is the best advice anyone can really give. I went to Northeastern University #1 to run and train with Olympic hopeful Erik "Ned" Nedeau. I found out that the 6-7hour days it took for school, weight training, running and study hall was cutting into my partying. Luckly I went to NU because it had my major and was in Boston. Although running is an important part right now, as it was for me in high school, it may not be once you step foot on campus. Just sayin' btw... Ned has a pretty decent Div 3 program at Ahmerst College.

So my advice would be to chose a school you would still want to go to even if you couldn't run.

+1

I was a crummy college runner and walked onto a D1 team, and ended earning a scholarship. Left college with no debt, a degree, and a love for running. I would consider your financial situation in this decision, and the future of your son. Are you going to pay for his education? Can you afford to pay 80 grand for an undergraduate degree? Can he afford to start out his career with 100+ grand of debt? I can't tell you how shocked I was to learn that people have that much college debt...especially with an undergrad degree. My .02 is that you can get your undergrad degree from anywhere and then go somewhere else for your graduate work. Running in college is going to last 4-5 years. Hopefully, he's going to be running for years and years to come. I would encourage my child to use that ability to pay for his education and say himself/herself from having debt the size of a mortgage when they get out of college. There are plenty of D1 schools that have scholarships available for kids that can run under 17 min in the 5k.

A non-track perspective....back in high school (when earth's crust was still cooling), I was a stud in a sport and set out looking at college choices from D1 (Syracuse, Auburn) to the New England elites (Williams [the bums rejected me, despite my dad and brother going there, and then they let in my little sister 4 years later!], Middlebury). A some point it came to me that I was only going to play this sport for 4 more years at best, there were no pro leagues (then), and I wasn't that good anyway. So after all these interviews with coaches, and shipping game films and all this crap around athletics, I had to sit down and think about what was "college" to me. What did the campus look like, what did the community need to have for me to enjoy and feel comfortable, all that crap. This completely reset my approach. 100%. I picked schools that I wanted to go to for their academics, the campus, the area and the experience, then winnowed down among those, who had good programs in my 2 sports. The bottom line is that at some late point in the process, I completely changed my focus from sport to college. In the end, I ended up at a school which was in ECAC D2 (no longer exists) but played D1 schools in my sport and competed for national championships at the D1 level. Had I let the sport drive the selection, I never would have picked this school, despite their constant top-ranked program. (Like the broken leg test, I ended up leaving the sport after junior year for recreation play to get back to the fun of playing rather than sitting the bench and having a bit role. So the college counted more than the sport in the end. I did end up playing in various leagues around Boston into my thirties, so college wasn't the end.)