The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 390 times)

watsonc123


    As I understand it, the "dead zone" was a training zone that didn't fit into Daniels training plans.  I'm not certain Daniel's ever meant it literally, but it seems some people took it that way.  I also don't know how the dead-zone should* be measured too, should it be perceived effort, pace, HR etc. as this can all vary depending on terrain, weather, how tired the legs are etc. plus some people run easy quicker than others**.

     

    *Not that there really is a dead-zone.

     

    **I cannot find it, but there's a McMillan article online where he's stated that he noticed that people of similar race pace, some naturally run easy quite slow whereas some naturally go the quicker end of easy.

    PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

     

    40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

    CommanderKeen


    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

      Mark - Nice week!


      Watson - Nice week as well, with a ton of climbing on that LR.


      DWave - I didn't ask you because I didn't know you wore them! Thanks for the input.
      I'm definitely glad your gait is improving as it is.


      Kiwi Point - I think the gist of it is taking the amount of moisture the air can hold (higher dew points can hold higher volumes of water) into consideration along with the temperature because all of that moisture has an insulating effect. Humidity alone can't account for this, as it's a measure of "what percentage of the amount of moisture the air can hold is it holding". 90% humidity is nothing if the dew point is really low, but 60% humidity can be much worse if the dew point is quite high.


      Pretty good week, though some poor sleep duration and/or quality in the days after my workout are causing some extra fatigue. My track workout was a repeat of one I did a couple weeks prior. I thought I ran the first a bit too easy (accounting for temps), so figured I'd stick with the same targets to accommodate temps were about 10F/2.5C higher for this workout, but I ended up executing this one better and an average of 2 sec/800m faster than the first time as well.

       

      Weekly for period: From: 07/04/2022 To 07/10/2022

      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
      in ft
      07/04 4 hawks, 4 rabbits, 2 ornate box turtles, & 1 deer (6 strides) 14.01 22.53 01:54:13 08:09 05:04 620
      07/05 4 scissor-tailed flycatchers 8.00 12.88 01:12:55 09:07 05:40 354
      07/06 Trying to beat the crowd. 4.10 6.59 00:33:55 08:16 05:09 115
      07/06 3x (4x 800m) progressive 9.32 15.00 01:06:16 07:07 04:25 0
      07/06 Heading home 3.25 5.24 00:26:17 08:05 05:01 190
      07/06 Toasty 4.05 6.52 00:35:55 08:52 05:31 220
      07/07 2 Mississippi kites & 1 hawk 8.00 12.88 01:11:58 09:00 05:35 299
      07/08 5 rabbits, 4 hawks, 1 owl, & 1 deer (1 stride) 11.00 17.70 01:35:19 08:40 05:23 499
      07/08 More (heat) doping in honor of Le Tour 4.10 6.60 00:35:39 08:42 05:24 180
      07/09 1 rabbit 4.10 6.60 00:37:22 09:07 05:40 151
      07/10 6 deer (6 progressive effort miles), 4 rabbits, & 1 yellow mud turtle 16.10 25.91 02:06:06 07:50 04:52 512

      Total distance: 86.05mi

      5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

       

      Upcoming Races:

       

      Wurst Race Half - 10/8

      Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

      CIM - 12/4

      Marky_Mark_17


        Keen - always rewarding when you can spot the improvement from workout to workout!

         

        I had a fun adventure this morning.  A months worth of rain in a few hours, as well as 80km/hr (50 miles/hr) winds gusting 110 (70).  I had a workout planned but that went out the window very quickly and became "let's just survive until the turnaround and then have some fun on the way back".  Ankle deep water in a few spots and the waves were crashing over the footpath in the cross-wind spots.  I kept to what I figured was a steady effort... it was mainly a headwind out (occasional crosswind) and a tailwind back.  Incredibly this meant the splits averaged 4:13/km on the way out (avg hr 152bpm) and 3:47/km on the way back (avg hr 155bpm).

         

        There were a couple spots on the way back where the tailwind was so strong it was like having someone pushing me in the back - to the point where I felt like if I resisted the pace I might end up flat on my face. And then a crosswind spot where I actually had to lean sideways into the wind to not get blown over.

         

        Not quite the workout I had planned but honestly it was pretty fun all the same!  Oh and there was a boat crashed on the rocks at one point too, only ever seen that once before in like 7 years along this route...

        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

        * Net downhill course

        Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

        Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          Mark - I'm impressed you got over the Harbour Bridge and didn't just take the work from home option.

           

          We're getting similar weather down here today.  I'm not unhappy that today is my rest day, although as you say, sometimes it can be fun in ridiculous weather as long as it's not dangerous.  There's a couple of Aucklanders in the office a bit bemused about how a standard day of Auckland type rain causes mass flooding across Christchurch...we just don't get that much rain so I guess the drainage systems get a shock when we do.

          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

          Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

          Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

          Fredford66


          Running Musician

            Mark - Quite the adventure you had.  I like it when something really different comes up on a run.  When I run in the rain, I find it oddly liberating when my second foot finds a puddle and becomes as soaked as the first foot to hit a puddle - after that, there's no need to worry about avoiding the water.

             

            Steve - Yeah, sometimes there's just too much water at once.  We had a storm year a year or so ago that saw street drains so overwhelmed that cars were floating in areas that had never been flooded before, and six hours later the streets were dry.

             

            Keen - Nice work sticking to the target paces despite the weather.  I agree with you that dew point is a better indicator of misery than relative humidity.

             

            Watson - I'm glad to hear about easy pace differing even for people who run hard at the same speed.  I think I'm one of the people who's on the slower end of what's an easy pace.

             

            DW - As with my comment above, I agree with you that the higher dew point is worse even when temp + DP is the same.  I picked up this little chart from the national weather service a while ago about how dew points feel that I think pretty much covers it.

            • < 55 = Pleasant
            • 56-60 = Comfortable
            • 61-65 = Sticky
            • 66-70 = Uncomfortable
            • 71-75 = Oppressive
            • 76+ = Miserable

            (We're going to hit "oppressive" later today and into the night, which should make for a less restful night's sleep.)

             

            Track work for me today. I ran 4 x 1200m with 400m recoveries.  My target was 5:42 per 1200 and I ran 5:40, 40, 43, and 42. My legs were really getting tired by the time I started the last 1200, so I reduced my stride and upped my cadence. For the first 400, that actually had me ahead of pace, then I started slowing and after 600 I was back on pace but slowing even more, so I switched back to my longer stride with a slightly slower cadence and managed to stay on target. It was interesting to see how the change in cadence & stride seemed to give my legs a bit of a break or rest before my final run to the end of the workout.  7½ miles for the day.

            5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

            Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
            zebano


              What's going on yall? Sorry this is just a driveby but I see everyone's favorite topics of uncomfortable summer weather and dead-zone running are back. I got injured a couple weeks back, took 5 days off, ran for 3 days and felt terrible so I'm off to see the doctor today. I'll try to catch up when work is less busy.

              1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

              Fredford66


              Running Musician

                What's going on yall? Sorry this is just a driveby but I see everyone's favorite topics of uncomfortable summer weather and dead-zone running are back. I got injured a couple weeks back, took 5 days off, ran for 3 days and felt terrible so I'm off to see the doctor today. I'll try to catch up when work is less busy.

                 

                Good to know you're OK (injury aside).  Thanks for the drive-by just to let us know you're still around.  I hope the doctor has good news for you.

                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
                Marky_Mark_17


                  What's going on yall? Sorry this is just a driveby but I see everyone's favorite topics of uncomfortable summer weather and dead-zone running are back. I got injured a couple weeks back, took 5 days off, ran for 3 days and felt terrible so I'm off to see the doctor today. I'll try to catch up when work is less busy.

                   

                  Ugh, sorry to hear about the injury.  Hopefully nothing serious.

                   

                  And just for the record I was talking about horrible winter weather (and I actually quite enjoyed it).

                  3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                  10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                  * Net downhill course

                  Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                  Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    Zeb ouch what do you think you have ? Leg injury ?

                     

                    Fred yes I think it's good to experiment with cadence and stride. You can move fatigue around somewhat.

                     

                    Mark/Steve I drove to Napier yesterday and it was pouring the whole way.

                     

                    I was in a funk last week. I'm not sure if it was mental or physical but I had very low energy and struggled to get out running. I think I still have some residual sickness from the latest cold bug I had 2 weeks ago.

                    We are in Napier for 3 days. Had a nice run this morning and a rare treadmill run yesterday while my son worked out. The treadmill felt pretty strange to me as I never use them. I felt like I was running 5 min/km but it was taking like 7 mins to get to a km on the screen!

                    Bike ride and wine tasting today.

                    Also hoping to get a good view of a Rocketlab launch tonight at 6pm. Forecast is good so will be a bonus on our trip.

                    50+ PBs -  

                    5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                    10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                    Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                    " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                    Somewhere in between is about right "      

                     

                    Fredford66


                    Running Musician

                      Zeb ouch what do you think you have ? Leg injury ?

                       

                      Fred yes I think it's good to experiment with cadence and stride. You can move fatigue around somewhat.

                        

                       

                      That's an excellent way of putting it.

                       

                      I hope you're getting out of your funk and have a good view of the launch.

                      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                      Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9

                        Thanks Fred I had an enjoyable run this morning fuelled by yesterday's wine tastings 

                        The rocket launch was cool although we are still around 60 miles away. We saw the orange glow of ignition and the orange of it as it soared into the heavens. The live stream was about 1 min behind.

                        50+ PBs -  

                        5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                        10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                          Kia ora, everyone.

                           

                          Just a quick hi from me, as things are a bit busy at the moment (and by 'things' I mean mostly the kids, with a little bit of work, the house, and cricket thrown in!).

                           

                          Zeb - Sorry to hear about the injury. Hope you're back on your feet soon.

                           

                          Fred - I always appreciate the in-depth view into your workouts.

                           

                          Mark - 21km around the track? I worry about you sometimes...

                           

                          Watson - Should catch you at the Welly XC, yeah? I'm aiming for an ambitious 41-43 mins. We'll see how it goes.

                           

                          Everyone that doesn't understand fahrenheit - (or how to spell it) - I've just noticed that the new heater we bought for the kids' room can switch between C° and F°. Their room at 5pm today was 46 F°!  (which is 8 degrees in normal temperature Smile )

                          50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:28:11 (Sept '22 - Sandy Point Off-Road Half) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Wellington Road Champs); - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22); Track Mile 5:32 (2021)

                          2022 Goals: Half Perish 4:00 pace - Road/Track 10km 3:45 pace - 5km 3:35 pace

                          2022 Races: Southland Half Perish Sept 18 - Southland 10 Miler Oct 9

                           

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Hashiritai - well, it wasn't supposed to be on the track, but I decided to do it there as everywhere else near home has hills of some description and my legs were still feeling Tuesday's battle with the elements a bit.  I've done some silly long workouts on the track before but I think this one was the ridiculousest.

                             

                            Piwi - hope you're enjoying the trip.  One of the senior guys from my team lives down that way.  He has a crazy wine cellar. Quite a few people in our team are hoping he'll host the team there lol.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                            Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            zebano


                              Hash and Watson, you two race so much XC!  I wish we had a similar senior circuit over here.

                              1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                              Fredford66


                              Running Musician

                                Hash - I had to look up kia ora as it's not a phrase I hear on this side of the planet.   Quite an adventure you had with the heater.  I hope the kids weren't adversely affected.

                                 

                                Mark - I can see where the track would give your legs a break, both from the easier surface and the lack of hills, but it must have been trying for your mind - unless you're able to just zone out and go.

                                 

                                To Zebano's comment about XC, we don't have a lot of it where I live, though most of the longer events are in colder weather.  My main problem is the terrain here is old, eroded hills, so the trails tend to have stretches with lots of rocks and rolling an ankle is real concern for me.

                                 

                                As to my run today, well...we had an outdoor rehearsal last night and I didn't drink enough, so I was already a bit dehydrated going into this morning's HM run in 73º (23C) weather. On top of that, I didn't sleep well. My target pace for the HM miles is 8:20 - 8:25. Today I averaged 8:40. My first mile was a bit slow, as usual, but rather than picking it up, I started dying and by the time I got to the hill in mile 3, I was cooked. I generally try to keep my pace on the hill under 9:00, but today I couldn't even stay under 10:00. It was ugly. All that said, I'm not too upset about it. Bad runs happen. As long as this doesn't become a pattern, I'll be fine.

                                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                                Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9