Overtrained (Read 846 times)

I think I am officially overtrained, or officially broken down, or whatever you want to call it. I'm sitting here looking back over the past 3.5 years and am realizing I haven't really taken any real time off. When I first think about it though, I've never trained at a high volume, so I wouldn't think I'd have any issues. Quick (or not so quick) history: Early 2005: Houston/Austin marathons Spring 2005: work sucked, barely worked out, could not run 3 miles in mid-May, swore I'd never lose that base again Summer 05: began marathon training again, sprint tris through the summer Dec 05: Sunmart 50k Jan 06: Houston Marathon May 06: Gulf Coast 1/2 Ironman Summer 06: various sprints Oct 06: Ironstar 1/2 Ironman Dec 06: Sunmart 50k Jan 07: Houston Marathon Feb 07: Austin 1/2 Marathon Apr 07: IMAZ May-Sept 07: lots of shorter races Oct 07: Chicago Marathon, Ironstar 1/2 Ironman Dec 07: Sunmart 50k Jan 08: Houston Marathon Feb 08: Austin 1/2 Marathon Apr 08: IMAZ May 08: Gulf Coat 1/2 Ironman Jun-Jul 08: sprint tris Aug 08: Barb's Race 1/2 Ironman (I really didn't so much bike/swim train for this one...last minute excuse for wine country vacation) Oct 08: St. George Marathon Houston 08 was my "breakthrough" marathon, lowering my PR from 5:12 to 4:30. I PR'd in 95% of the races I did from Sept 07-Jul 08 (5k, 10k, 1/2 marathon, marathon, 50k, sprint tri, half ironman, ironman). I was training to do a 4:15 at St. George this fall and trained more for that marathon than any of my previous ones, but still with mileage averaging 35-40 miles a week, nothing huge. I also pretty much dropped all swimming and biking after Barb's race in August. St. George didn't go as well as I was hoping (4:28) and I never felt completely rested with my taper heading into the race. It has now been a month since the race and I have run/walked 40 total miles since then. I've been having some awful heart rate days where it is running over 190 for what is supposed to be a very easy run. I hit 197 on an 8 mile run weekend before last where I averaged over 11:00 min/mile pace (last 3 miles were just under 10:00 pace). I think my resting HR has been running high, but I had not been actively measuring it before all of this, unfortunately. I've had high HR issues since I started all of this, but it has been even more exaggerated in the past few months. I was diagnosed with asthma in August and am now on symbacort and some allergy meds. I don't think the meds are solely responsible for the increased HR though because my HR was high before going on the meds. (went to the cardiologist on the recommendation my asthma dr. and my ekg and stress test all came back normal even though the lady stopped my stress test when my hr was 196 saying that my max should be 193 (220-my age)...I wasn't too happy with her, and I was barely breaking a sweat at that point, but that is a different story). I guess my overall question is what to do from here. I'm signed up to do the 50k again in December and the marathon in January. I can let the 50k go (after many tears...this is really really hard for me to accept at this point), but I really, really don't want to have to let the marathon go to. My bestfriend of 26 years is coming from CA to run her first marathon and we have been planning to run it together (if I can even keep up...she's proving to be quite the runner). After that, I'm signed up for IMCDA and IMFL next year. Obviously I need to figure out what is going on with my body now, not in 6 months when it is too late, but I just don't know what to do. Sit on my butt for a month and do absolutely nothing? Limit all my runs to 3-6 miles and try to stay below x heart rate? Drop running for a bit and go back to biking and swimming and add in some yoga, pilates, etc? I have been "on" for so long now and had the best year ever from about Sept 07 through summer 08. I had a 42 minute marathon PR, 25 minute 1/2 PR, 4 minute 5k PR, 5 minute 10k pr, 50 minute IM pr, 15 minute HIM pr...well, you get the idea. But I feel like it is all gone now. I tried to run a 5k two weeks after the St. George marathon and literally ran 5 minutes slower than my PR and that was absolutely all I had that day (for comparison I ran a 1:57 half marathon two weeks after the Houston marathon in January...my pace for the half was faster than my pace for that awful 5k a few weeks ago). Sorry this is so long, but I'm having a very hard time trying to figure out what I should do from here. "Rest" doesn't tell me enough. How much rest, how much activity, for how long, and how will I know that I might be out of the woods? Thanks ahead of time for anyone who may have any insight!

Honey, let me just quickly tell you what I think (then I've got to head out for my own run...in the snow!); it seems to me that most people who attempt to run a marathon are over-trained. I'm re-working a literature called "Jogging with Lydiard" (if you're not familar with the name, google "Arthur Lydiard") and it is amazing to me how he emphasized "work within one's limitations". I feel way too many people today are so hooked with marathon running and they jump to run one and continue to run them. And, along the way, many of so-called "accepted" schedules call for 3 or 4 or 5 twenty-milers which I think is way too many. Rod Dixon, who is the bronze medalist in 1972 Olympic 1500m and the winner of 1983 NYC marathon, had his daughter run her first marathon last weekend. Upon discussing her training, he said she pulled out one of those popular marathon schedules. He said he scratched 20-miler here and another 20-miler there... In the end, she did one 20-miler and one half marathon race and she ran 3:34. Same with the girl I helped this fall. She was stuck at 3:40 by doing one of those cookie-cutter training. I scratched all those 20-milers and she did one 2:40 run, one 3-hour run and that was it; and she ran 3:30, a 10-minute PR. There's a time to train hard; there's a time to take it easy. There's a time to run fast; there's a time to go easy. Your HR is a good indication of you probably having to run too much too hard too soon. I don't think "rest" is an answer either. I think you can easily continue to run but SLOW DOWN. Do what you feel happy about. Just go out and enjoy a nice strall... Listen to your body. You'll know when the urge comes back up. When your body is ready to push a bit and feel good about it. Don't just follow whatever the cookie-cutter schedule calls for. I've been feeling a bit down about it myself. I never took a day off (since June or so); but I just went out for an easy 30-minute jog. I didn't care how far I went or how fast (or slow) I was running; just a half an hour jog. Then about 2 weeks later in NY, going around Central Park, something just clicked and I just couldn't go any slower! I was FLYING! It's no fun plodding. You know how it feels; when you're in shape and move quite fast for a long time... Sometimes people get so hung up on mileage and schedule and your base fitness level actually goes down lower and lower and lower... Don't think the symptom wouldn't show up immediately. It may take months or even a year until the symptoms of over-training show. One of the first signs I would look is loss of ambition or appetite, you may call it, for training. You basically feel depressed about it. You should feel happy and rejoiced about it; not depressed and threatened... And if you felt that way, just drop it. You don't need to stop running completely; but forget mileage or forget minute-per-mile or even heart rate... Just get out and do what you feel happy about. 15 minutes walk--so be it! Good luck with it. You'll come around for sure. It may take some time, but you WILL come around.

All that racing would just kill me. I would not do the 50K but I'd probably do the marathon only cuz your BFF( ) is running it as well. A good friend of mine, who's opinion I respect and hopefully will see your post and comment, is of the opinion that runners can perform at a high level for a couple of years before having to back off for a good while to re-charge both mentally and physically. You seem to have had that very nice couple-year buildup. Maybe cutting back intensity and, as Nobby said, just getting out some enjoy some nice, easy runs where you have no pace/time/HR goals will get you back 'in the groove'. Good luck

Hey, I know people who train for 50 mile ultras on 35 miles a week. Sometimes less is better. Why not try a heart-rate based program, which forces you to go S-L-O-W on your easy days (once you get the high heart rate checked out -- definitely do that!).

Too much racing and not enough just plain old running.

K, First - nice to see you on these boards. Might not remember me but I joined you and a few folks for a training day at Twin Lakes - must have been during summer of '07. Actually saw you at GRB on marathon morning - glad it was a good day for you. I am in Indiana now but coming back to Houston for the marathon and to visit friends. I would listen to Nobby - he is a bit of an internet legend. Lydiard is good reading and Nobby is known as one of the experts. Mainly, listening to your body as it seems you are doing now. Everyone needs some down time and you can't simply train year round. You need some time to decompress, recover, and get excited about the sport. I am not sure if active recovery is better than complete time off - listen to your body for clues. Wish you all the best

How long are your daily runs in terms of time?

Zero minutes at the present! In the time since St. George, my longest run was 8 miles, which took about 90 minutes. The rest of my runs were all probably 35-65 mintues (3-6 miles). I'm not sure what period of time you are asking about though - leading up to my recent marathon, or since then. Leading up to it, it varied every day, weekday runs usually 30-70 minutes, longer for a track workout, and long runs up to 3.5-4 hrs.

I was trying to get a handle on your weekly and daily routines. It sounds like in your weeks with long runs in marathon training, nearly half your weekly time/volume went to that long run and you basically spent the period in between recovering from it, that's if you were averaging 35-40 and 20 milers for longs. So you have this ability to simply go far, 50ks, I/Ms, half I/Ms. Based on your marathon PR I'm guessing all very achievable for you as long as you take them slow. This is something I can't do, I just don't have it in me to do the long stuff. That in itself is quite the talent and you should be proud of that. However, you're bothered because for all the effort, you're not improving (and even regressing) even at shorter stuff. I don't think it's an issue of overtraining, I think you've simply been training in the way that works for you for the types of events you're doing. You do a really big training run or a really big event, then kind of glide through the period in between to recover enough for the next big run or big event...organizing all your training to those big runs. If that's what works for you and you're happy with that, then that's what to do. But if you're going to try to improve in those middle and shorter distance runs, consider a change in how you train. Stop concentrating on those big slow runs and cap them at something reasonable, like around 2 hours. Instead of a week trying to recover between big runs (and I'm only guessing that this is what you're doing based on the info you've provided), think instead of a week that builds you up towards a much more modest long run that won't take you off your feed for several days. Skip IMs and half IM's for a while. Something tells me you like to race but really don't like to train that much.