Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Mikkey: Nice week with a couple of your signature treadmill workouts. Have you really changed your running style/form?? Good luck on the half this weekend!
Weather: Solid week and mileage. 90 day running streak? I'd say you were due for a day off! My streak never seems to get past 6 days
Subdood: I hope that tick wasn't feeding all night on you! Ticks may be the only insect I like even less than horseflies. Growing up in backwoods Michigan I never encountered a single tick, but living in CT now they are a major pain in the a$$.
BGS: Don't worry too much about the LR yesterday, everyone has an off day now and then. Still looks like a solid week to me. BTW, here is the link for the weekly generator: rwol-weekly.appspot.com
My week was ok. I had a decent 3 x 2mi hard session on a nice cool day Thursday. As I mentioned above I felt really lousy for my long run Sunday. Fortunately I was planning just an all-easy LR with a bit of hills so did not have to deal with any MP miles or the like. Hopefully I'll have a bit more energy this week.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 16, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 22, 2018
2:52:16 (2018)
Hey all, count me in for the autumn cycle. I'm signed up for Indy and slowly working my way back. I had a miserable summer getting a sfx 4 weeks prior to my spring marathon and been working back slowly since then with a pit stop in ER for some needle porn on my poor knee along the way. I hope to be able to get back up to 50ish this week and build from there. No idea what I'll be capable of come Nov as my cardio is pretty much shot to shit right now. Lots to do, onwards!
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
Mmmm Bop
Weatherboy - Great week and congrats on the 90 day running streak...I’m guessing you’ve only had 2 or 3 rest days all year!
SubDood - I hope the hot/humid weather returns for you soon so that you can reap the benefits!
BGS - I think you’ve got the same problem as SubDood with those MP long runs months before the race. If it’s at goal pace and not HR MP then you’ll struggle this early on.
JT - You pushed the pace for your last couple of long runs so an easier time on feet run is good....and it was still a decent pace with those hills!
Kram - Great to see my fellow treadmill buddy back! You’ve got plenty of time to build up gradually and fingers crossed that you have a healthy Indy cycle. 👍
Swim - Are you having trouble logging in???
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Thanks Mikkey and JT. I consider my 1 day of week of anywhere from 4-6 miles (usually Saturdays) a rest or recovery day
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Kram: Great to have you back and glad you are out of the woods with the injury. Do you have an idea of what caused the stress fracture? Can you pinpoint it to a specific run or week, or did it come on gradually? From what I recall your mileage, though high, was not higher than your previous cycles, so I'm curious what caused the sf.
RIP Milkman
Kram - its great to see you back here. So glad you're recovering from that sfx. Had one in high school and I was dumb about my recovery, you did it nicely.
JT/Weather - do you two ever take down weeks? You're putting the rest of us to shame!
Me - Down week for me. Ran a 17:53 5k this past weekend. Part of me is disappointed I'm not seeing gains in fitness but I guess I can't be too upset given I'm in marathon training and not specifically training for 5k. Weather doesn't help either. Back to training this week for me.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
No PR? I think you should quit this thread in shame.
Hey guys,
I was here last fall and got some good advice, so back here again as I prepare for Steamtown in October. This will be my 7th marathon, (I've run several ultras) and my first marathon other than Philly. After getting burned with bad weather for several years now at Philly I'm trying a course with some downhill, even if the risk of warm weather is higher.
Last year I got 3:02 at Philly with the bad wind, and I figure that if my fitness is the same, I'll have a good shot at going under 3 on this course. Last fall I had a massive gain in fitness, and I've continued to hit PRs at all distances this year (I'm 39M). I'm running Pfitz 18/70 for the 2nd time, although I missed about a month due to injury, and I'm trying to jump into the second mesocycle (I averaged about half mileage during that month).
Anybody else doing Steamtown? I'm hoping that my trail work I've done will prepare me for the hills.. I've seen advice saying find a 10 mile downhill and practice running on it, but that doesn't seem practical. One of my biggest concerns is pacing. I'm a low tech guy who hates GPS watches, so I'm hoping there will be a group of people with a similar goal that I can cruise along with. If all goes well, I'm thinking maybe hitting the half in like 1:28 might be a good goal on this course.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Slingrunner - I ran Tucson last year which is a downhill course. I live in a hilly area and practiced some fast downhill running, but didn't do anything near 10 miles down hill. Probably 2-3 miles max. That was plenty for the race.
As I've mentioned previously I am early in a Pfitz cycle and the harder runs are kicking my ass I think in part due to early in the cycle and in part due to weather. I find I am often stopping briefly (~1-2 min) in the middle of hard segments like today which was 9 with 4 @ 6:20-6:30. I'll stop for traffic to cross a street or I'll stop as I'm passing a park for some water, etc. My questions:
1. How much are those stops hurting my training benefit? I could find routes where I'm not crossing streets and don't have to stop at the water fountains (but it sure is a nice break!).
2. Would it be better to slow down a bit and not make any stops or is it better to get some miles running the faster (for me) paces even with some short stops at this point and gradually reduce those as the cycle progresses.
3. Also, should I be doing faster segments on flat terrain? It seems like hitting some even minor hills would be a good training load but it destroys my pace.
Thanks in advance. I'm still trying to figure all this out.
Bigskinnyguy-
I also struggle with Pfitz tempo and marathon pace runs early in the schedule in the summer. Today I had a 11 w/6 @the same pace as you and was able to complete it, but that was on a treadmill with 3 fans blowing on me.
For outdoor faster runs, I've asked myself the same question. The first thing I always do on bad condition days is separate the warmup from the speed work. Even on the treadmill today I hopped off after my warmup to cool down. Otherwise, on somewhat bad days, I'll try and reduce the pace a bit and complete the whole workout. If the weather is really bad, I'll break a run like yours into 2 parts, with enough time in between to towel off.
In the 5 marathons I've run Pfitz, I don't think I've ever been able to complete all of the marathon pace runs at my marathon pace. I've learned to accept it, and my pace picks up dramatically when it gets cooler.
BGS: I think you have to re-calibrate your workout expectations for weather and/or hills. The Pfitz Tempo 9 mi w/ 4 @ 6:30-ish workout just about killed me a few weeks ago. But it was really hot and humid, and my normal route has some long hills in it. I wasn't even able to finish the 4 miles, and my pace was in the 6:40 range. Contrast that with yesterday -- temps in the upper 50's, and I had almost the same workout as Sling -- 12 mi w/ 6 @ 6:30-ish pace. I averaged 6:33 pace for the 6, and each mile was faster than the previous one, with the last 2 in 6:23 and 6:20. And it felt pretty good, too. I firmly believe that training in heat and humidity helps toughen me up, and I am waiting for it to return in August for a few weeks at least. As crazy as that sounds.
Sling: I am not running Steamtown, but I am running Twin Cities on the very same day (Oct. 7). So we must be at the exact same place in the Pfitz 18-week plan? I'm doing a slightly watered-down 18/85 plan; I may hit 80+ miles a few weeks along the way, but I'm skipping most of the scheduled doubles (e.g., the 4 mile p.m. jog on recovery days). I'm scheduled for a 22-miler tomorrow, so you must have something pretty close to that.
I'm not a Strava user, but I have a chart that I update on another forum thread that shows my plan and actuals each week. Here is this week so far:
DAY
6 am
4 pm
6.1 am;
0.0 pm
9.3
Aerobic, 8:18 avg pace
15
6.1
Jog, 10:00 avg pace
12
--
Jog
JMac: A 5k a few seconds off your PR in lousy weather should make you feel good about where you are fitness-wise. Also because you are doing marathon specific training.
Sling: A guy I know from the old RWOL threads ran Steamtown a few times and really loved it. As with Paul, I don't recall he did any specific downhill training for it.
BGS: I try to do tempo/threshold segments on as flat sections of road as I can, if nothing else than to keep confidence up by hitting paces, which I could not do on hillier terrain.
Subdood: Nice week and glad the heat training is paying off for you!
After reading Pfitz and doing a couple of long runs as he prescribes, coupled with the heat and humidity we have had here the last several weeks, it all caught up to me this week. I had felt dead after last week's all easy long run, took Monday off, and then ran an easy run Tuesday. My HR was up in the upper 150's, sometimes over 160. Normally it should be 130's for my easy pace. I felt dead during the run and absolutely drained the rest of the day. So I decided to take Wed off, and run easy the rest of the week. By Friday my HR was back where it should be. Those Pfitz-paced LRs (10-20% slower than MP) may build toughness but the deep fatigue they cause for me is not worth the gain. I'm going back to easy pace for my LRs, with perhaps some MP segments thrown in. Doing everything in that pace region between easy and MP is just not for me I'm afraid. I think I'm the slowest-recovering person on earth training-wise.
Those Pfitz-paced LRs (10-20% slower than MP) may build toughness but the deep fatigue they cause for me is not worth the gain. I'm going back to easy pace for my LRs, with perhaps some MP segments thrown in. Doing everything in that pace region between easy and MP is just not for me I'm afraid. I think I'm the slowest-recovering person on earth training-wise.
JT: I’m no expert, and this is my first time actually following the Pfitz plan, but I just re-read the portion describing how the “10-20% slower than MP” should be applied to your Long Runs. Basically, it says to start slowly and increase pace gradually so that you reach 20% slower than GMP by mile 5. Then, gradually increase speed from there so that you hit 10% slower than GMP for the last 5 miles of the run. To me, this sounds MUCH easier than trying to maintain a pace in the 10-20% range for the entire run (especially if you are trying to stay closer to the 10% end of the range). I’m not sure if this makes sense, but I thought I’d throw it out there in case you were interpreting this differently.
I’ll try to put this into practice tomorrow morning.
JT: I’m no expert, ... I’ll try to put this into practice tomorrow morning.
JT: I’m no expert, ...
I'm more of a hypocrite. I tried to run it as an "easy" progression: ramp up slowly to 20% slower than MP (8:12 pace) by mile 5, then reach 10% slower than MP (7:31 pace) for just the last 5 miles or so. This was the plan at least, and it seemed very do-able. Instead, I hit the paces sooner (and faster) in the run, and sustained them longer than prescribed. I had a stretch of 11 miles at 7:25 avg pace, which felt ok, but was more than the workout called for.
Details: 22-mile Progression
Combo of factors making it faster than planned: (a) cool temps -- 58F at start; (b) I fueled during the run (I normally don't); (c) 2 really easy recovery days this week in the 3 days leading up to it (10:00 pace or slower on Thurs and Sat).
Next week, the Long Run is 18 miles w/ 12 mi at MP (6:50). THAT sounds much more intimidating than a 22-mile progression like today.