Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Subdood: You're right, for some reason I had it in my head that the first half or so should be at 20% slower, then the second half at 10% slower. I think by doing that (actually a bit faster than that) and the humidity being what it was for those two LRs, it just was way too much. Nice job getting a very solid long run in today. And I agree, 18 with 12 at MP sounds very tough. I'd need a good 10-14 easy days to recover from that.
I got in 48 miles for the week, all easy, except for one fast mile yesterday just to make sure my legs don't forget how to run fast . This morning I did a 13 miler with HR nice and low, even under 130 for parts. I think I should be recharged now and ready to go at it again. But I still think I will keep most of the LRs at an easy pace, ~30% slower than MP. Maybe just a few with some MP miles, and a few others with hills. That's been the formula I've followed before, so I'll stick to it.
2:52:16 (2018)
BGS: A few stops shouldn't hurt you too much, especially in the heat. Probably a safe choice since it allows your HR to drop back into the intended zone (i.e. threshold).
Sub: Nice training wek even if you didn't get up to your plan.
JMAC: Nice 5K. Not bad at all especially with the weather!
JT: Nice week. As for your pace on LR's I'd say go by feel. You know what pace and effort feels right. Although, for whatever reason I seem to turn just about every longer effort into a steady progression. BTW, that sounds like a nice low HR for a LR.
Got in just over 82 miles for the week where I added a bit more quality than I have had in the past few weeks. First up was a 5 mile effort here at work where I ran with a younger co-worker for 30 minutes straight on the track. We decided to turn it into a nice workout for the both of us and ended up with just over 20 laps so it was a solid tempo of threshold type of run for me, especially in the heat. Got a little carried away on the cool down and ran another 4 where I progressed down into the M pace range. Then on Friday ran a modified Daniels R workout where I did 3 sets of 8 X 200 on the track in what was probably the warmest morning all year. Followed that up with a LR on Saturday that also had a bit of mid-run quality pacing another friend on her bridge workout (4 X 1200's). Basically took a shorter/recovery day on Sunday instead. That said still thinking I'll need to drop the volume back about 10 or so miles this week to recover just a bit.
Weekly Summary Monday, Jul 23, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 29, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
RIP Milkman
JT - Experienced some of the same stuff myself this week (see below)
Weather - Another great week, your training has been amazing.
BGS - I tend to plan my harder efforts such that I use the down time for water breaks, e.g. if I was doing something like 6@MP + 1Easy + 6@MP, I would make sure that there was a water fountain somewhere in the middle of that 1 easy mile. I also try to find flat segments, but for tempo or marathon effort, it's okay if it's a bit rolling in nature, especially if you're marathon features that. Just adjust your pace
Me - Complete garbage week. I was on vacation and running in new terrain and got my ass handed to me. Every workout, even easy runs, was a bear. I think I was too dehydrated during most of them, but my Friday run took the cake. I was completely gassed at the end of 4 miles, and was nowhere near water in TDP of 150. I honestly thought I was on the edge of heat stroke. I had to walk every half mile or so to regain my breath, and have never felt so happy to be done and get a drink of water at the end of it. I honestly think that 10 miles on Friday was the harder than any of my two marathons. I kept telling myself "okay, 25 minutes until you can get water. Okay, 15 minutes until you can get water." I bailed on my Saturday planned 16 mile tempo workout given I was mentally broken. It's amazing how dehydration and a beating down sun in new terrain (much hillier) can absolutely kick your ass.
Back to real training this week though in NYC.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 23, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 29, 2018
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Thanks for the feedback on my questions. My week wasn't as impressive as some of yours. I had some motivational challenges last week. Hopefully this week will be better.
Weather: Great week; it seems like 80 miles per week is your goldi-locks zone; seems like you could string those together indefinitely. I was really impressed with that 30 min tempo. Holding 5:52 pace for that makes me wonder what you could do in a 10k. Have you raced a 10k yet?
JMac: I guess last week was ass-handing-out week for both of us. It sounds like your 10 miler was similar to my Tuesday 8 miler (which was supposed to be a 10 miler). Did you get any HR data from it? Anyway, good idea to back off and recover.
BGS: Motivational issues or not, that looks like a strong week to me. Nice tempo session and long run.
Indy 2018, w4/18M 01 06 09 8.09 T 01 12 11 8.55 w/ 6x hill sprintsW 01 20 58 10.05 tm w/ 3wu + 6x1@(6:30-6:00) + 1cd , 0.5%, rec: ~90s static 9.5-10mphTh 00 50 05 6.16 F 01 01 52 7.0 S 01 35 27 13.0 tm w/ 8@7:04/1@-->6:18 (8.5mph, --> 9.6), 0.5/1%S 00 31 50 3.74 ==== 56.59
Good week for me. I got my first proper threshold session in on Wed and it looks like my current LT is around 6:00 pace. I'd like to get that to sub 5:50 by marathon time, so fingers crossed there. Two mile repeats on deck this week, which should be very revealing. I'm building back up my long run too and was happy with a solid 13 miles with 9 of those at something in the region of 90% MP.
BGS: Don't stress too much. Things can get intimidating around here with the uber weeks some will post. Just keep working at your own current level and hopefully you'll learn and get/give some motivation.
JMAC: Nothing wrong with a down week, although it sounds like you beat yourself up enough regardless. There's nothing like that scary woozy feeling you get when you are conscious of being dehydrated with miles to go!
Weather: Great week. You've got to have taken great confidence from that track session. Mighty impressive!
JT: I wouldn't be so down on being beaten up after a couple of hard long runs. The harsh summer conditions really do a number on us. I'd do another of those moderate pace long runs before race day to mix things up. Now that you know it'll trash you, plan recovery accordingly and you'll benefit loads.
Subdood: Solid week. How do you find doing a 22miler when your overall mileage is 50? Good luck with the 12MP... those really let you know where things stand.
sling: Welcome aboard. Looks like you'll have a very good chance at going sub3.
Mickey: TM for the win! Nice race btw!
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
JT: The only 10K I've done in the past 2 years was back in mid Feb (about 3 weeks after my hard marathon) where I ran a 36:09 which also included 2 ~1/2 mile bridge climbs at the tail end of the race. Certainly think I'm in better shape than that now and it would be nice to find a nice flat & cool one to run at some point. Might be going up north to visit family in the early fall for a weekend so it would be worthwhile to look for a local 5 or even 10K to jump into!
Kram: Nice looking week! Has to be encouraging to see the fitness coming back.
JMAC: Still a nice week - you'll bounce back quickly.
BGS: Nice week!
Subdood- I take comfort in the fact that pretty much everyday whatever run I have, yours is just a little bit longer. Yes, my plan called for 20 last weekend. Like you, I find the short marathon pace runs far more intimidating. I'm away Fri-Sun so I'm going to rearrange my schedule and do that probably on Tuesday. I'm not sure what I'm going to do for that run, but the only way I could complete it as prescribed is on a treadmill, so blech. My legs were beat up enough after Sunday's run I can't even imagine doing a double the next day as your schedule calls for!
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Mmmm Bop
Slingrunner - Welcome back, you can still be a low tech guy and wear a GPS watch rather than relying on others for pace guidance during a race!
BGS - I would suggest tempo intervals at slightly faster pace and work it so that you won’t need to stop during so sections. I know you’re following Pfitz...but it’s just a guideline and you don’t have to follow the plan exactly.
SubDood - I liked the progression LR and good week overall!
JT - I agree with Weatherboy and just go by feel with the LRs. 👍
Weatherboy - You are a machine who just churns out great weeks every week with no drama or injury!
JMac - No worries, you were on vacation and shouldn’t be stressed out about running! 🧘♂️
Kram - Wow, current LT at around 6.0 pace is a very promising start to your comeback!
Finbad - I see you did some running this week and hope you’re on the mend. Not sure if you’re a one and done with London but the Good for Age entry application opened this morning.
My week...
Mon - 12 @ 7:56
Tue - 13 @ 6:47 (TM w/2x3 @ 6:26 and 2 @ 6:26 - 1mile easy recovery (failed 3x3)
Fri - 5 @ 7:13
Sun - 13.1 @ 6:59 (South Coast Half - 1:31:33)
Total - 43
The conditions for my half were pretty bad...rain and 40mpw SE winds and was drenched before the race even started. It was a 4 lap course and after the 1st lap I got into a groove and managed to run them all in Sub23 for near enough an even split. Slowest mile was 7:24 (mile 3) and fastest was 6:38 (mile 11) Not a great time on paper but it was a confidence booster for me and think I’ll be good for Sub3 at Goodwood Marathon in 7 weeks time if all goes to plan!
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Kram: Nice to see you posting a week and it looks like you're in pretty good shape already. 6:00 pace for LT...I'm jealous. And I doubt it will take long for you to drop that to 5:50 or less. BTW, was there a specific workout/run that led to the SF, or did it come on gradually with no clear single cause? Sorry to pry on that, and feel free to tell me to bugger off about it; I'm just curious when someone gets an SF how it originated. Sometimes people can pinpoint exactly when/how it happened, other times not.
Weather: 36:09 is a great time but I agree, you should be able to do much faster on the flat and in better conditions. Good idea to try one when you visit up north in the fall. I'm not sure about NY state but in western CT there are surprisingly few 10k races. 5ks abound but 10k is much rarer, unfortunately.
Mikkey: Nice job on that half. Racing when soaked is now fun, let alone in that kind of wind. Sounds similarly crappy conditions to the marathon I did in April, though you had it even worse. I was also soaked before the gun went off. No fun to have wet heavy shoes the whole race!
BGS - 50 miles in a week is always a great number!
Kram - Great comeback if your threshold is right at 6:00. So depressing being injured, but so amazing how resilient the body is to come back to close to former shape.
Mikkey - I can't even imagine running in 40mph winds. The worst I've raced in is 20mph and I hated every minute of it. Well done.
JT - not addressed to me, but my stress fracture was the classic case of too much, too soon. Ramped up mileage like crazy in high school during cross country after being lazy the summer before and ended up with a tibial stress fracture. Obviously Kram's situation is a bit different.
Mon - 6+ @ 8:47
Tue - 10 @ 7:22 (TM with some strides)
Wed - 18 @ 7:55
Fri - 10 @ 6:54 (TM w/6 @6:26)
Sun - 22+ @ 7:57
Total - 67
Pretty good week for me and fine about 5 days running per week now as I’m doing 2x45min strength sessions at the gym and a couple of 20min sessions at home.
The cool dry weather ended in time for today's 18 mi w/ 12 @ MP. Good week this week following the 22-miler last Sunday. Lots of easy running leading up to today:
DAY
6 am
4 pm
6.1 am,
0.0 pm
9.1
Aerobic, 8:52 pace
15
8.2
Jog, 9:10 pace
13
7.1
Aerobic, 9:30 pace
Today marked the half-way point of this 18-week plan. Today was very draining; I've been struggling to stay awake all day following the effort. Overall, though, I'm happy with how things are going so far.
JMac: I was thinking about your dehydration run last week during the last few miles of my run today. I was getting dizzy when I bailed at 11.5 miles of the MP portion (almost ran the full 12 mi, jogged a mile at the end to finish). I had water with me, but apparently wasn't drinking enough of it along the way.
Kram: I think you asked about what it's like running 22 milers when my weekly mileage is only around 50. I believe I created the confusion by posting my plan last week with a mid-week tally; the weekly miles are now in the uppers 70's the last few weeks, and it is starting to feel normal.
Mikkey: Solid week!
Sling: Although I have doubles scheduled the day after my Long Runs, I have yet to run twice on those days. My plan for tomorrow is to do the 6 miles in the a.m., then try to get out and go for a brisk walk for at least 2 miles in the afternoon.
Mikkey - Solid week. Felt like your motivation was waining a bit but good to see you put up 60+. We’re brothers in the “as much volume as possible on as few days as possible” camp.
Subdood - Nice week. Crazy that he has you doing 12 @ MP this early. I think he builds up to something absurd like 16 @ MP right? Can’t even imagine doing that in the middle of training. BTW I started to feel that horrible dehydration feel again on my 20 today, but it was nothing like last week. This dehydration was just standard parched mouth and feeling bad thirst. But last week, it’s a different ballgame when you’re so far away from water, completely gasssed, and running in the middle of the day with the sun beating down on you. I felt like I was in the desert.
Me - Confidence restoring week for me after my complete garbage last week. Hit 20 today (GPS always short due to buildings) which was way rougher than I remember. It’s interesting how different everyone’s approach is to marathon training, but I really like Daniels approach since that 20 felt terrible since I just had a Q session a few days ago, so it’s like you get the benefit of running even longer without actually having to do it. Thursday Q session was really good, except that last 2T felt horrible. Felt like I had to sprint to get anywhere near my correct threshold pace. My body was trying to have me run about 35 seconds slower but I got it down to 10 seconds slower, which was probably right given the weather. Just dying to see what my fitness is after the weather breaks in a month or so. It’s so weird to just keep the confidence up all summer not knowing whether you are gaining anything or not. Finally, I added my next race to my sig line, which is the Bronx 10 mile. It’s my final tune up race, and I plan on mini-tapering into it. I do have two other halves lined up, but I plan on running them at MP. Last year this Bronx 10 mile was on a record high temperature day so it served no purpose in giving me an indication of my fitness. Let’s hope otherwise this year. Mileage is getting up there and besides my garbage week last week, I’m having a good cycle so far.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 30, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 05, 2018
Mikkey: Looks like an extremly solid week on just 5 days of running. Kudos for getting in the strength work as well. Would love to be able to do more of that! Nice workout on Friday as well.
Subdood: Big week. Nice big 18 mile workout in there as well. I'm a big believer in the doubles the day after a LR. Must have picked that up from Pfitz myself a few years back.
JMAC: Glad to see you get some confidence back especially with a nice 20 miler in there! Looks like a big mixed workout on Thursday!
Me: Pretty solid week overall where I dropped the overall volume just a bit since I added perhaps a bit more quality. Wednesday plan was for some mixed 200's and 400's (still on Rep pace), but the track we visited had lots of construction going on since they were redoing the turf on the infield and part of the track was not runnable. So we decided to do a bunch of 300's instead which was a pretty good distance to run hard and then allow for a bit of recovery before the next. Towards the end of the week our heat went to the next level so my tempo workout on Friday had to modified a bit both for pace and duration. Still a good effort where I did 4 X 1 at somehwere near my true tempo pace and then another 2 X 1mi pacing a friend at a slower uptempo pace. Was interesting to add in some 200's after the tempo miles as well. It' s something that Daniels calls for in his Phase II half marathon plan. We are breaking records with our overnight lows as the last 4 nights have only dipped to 82!.
Weekly Summary Monday, Jul 30, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 05, 2018