Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
RIP Milkman
Madison - great week. Remind me, are you on Strava?
Sub - Same question about Strava, and also awesome week. Never done a long run after a race, can’t imagine how it feels towards the end of the run.
Mikkey - wtf was with that long run this morning?!
Me - another week in the books. Very happy with continuing to get around 65 MPW on only 5 days of running. My I+R workout on Thursday was tough in a good way. Those 400s at the end are brutal, JD is quite a little bastard throwing them in there in the middle of marathon training, as I’m more used to that in HM training where you’re running a lot less. I’m going to Europe this week, so it’ll be a down week, but then after that I will bump up to 70 and hold there through NYC. Weather has gotten nicer here, but it’ll be a real treat to run in Denmark where high temps are in the 60’s.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Aug 20, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 26, 2018
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Been a busy couple of weeks and I've become a tad tardy.
Indy 2018, w7/18M 01 08 27 7.5 w/ 7x hill sprintsT 01 32 53 12.0 tm w/ 3wu + 3x2@6:00/1@5:45 + 2cd, 0.5%m rec: 120s/60s staticW 01 13 08 8.86 Th 01 09 59 8.46 F 00 58 45 7.14 S 02 10 37 18 w/ 2wu + 14@6:59/1-->6:13 + 1cd, 0.5%, ** 10k strava miles doneS 00 56 31 6.53 ==== 68.49
Good week. I felt strong and got a solid threshold session in on Tuesday and a good long run on Sat. Hit 10k miles logged on strava too which was kinda cool. Never in a million years would have had me doing that in my 20s!
Indy 2018, w8/18M 00 45 38 5.7 T 01 00 00 7.33 tm w/ 3wu + 2x1@5:52 + 2.33cd, 0.5%, felt rotten - bailedW 01 15 28 9.22 Th 00 35 30 4.41 F 01 22 54 10.47 S -- -- -- URD S 01 38 51 12.1 ==== 49.23OK week, with life intervening, but in good ways. My T session on Tuesday was a mess as I just didn't feel right and needed to bail after the second rep. I think that this was a due to poor sleep, which meant that I didn't recover from the previous long run correctly. Must focus on recovery a little better. The rest of the week was ok, though I took Sat off and enjoyed too much food and beverage. One minute closer to a moose mug!
Subdood: Stellar week. I've always found back to back long efforts to be a really beneficial of making an improvement without going to deep into the well. Nice job keeping those easy days easy too.
JMac: That was a great Q session on Thur. Have fun in Denmark, hope you're able to get a bit of decent easy sight-seeing mileage in.
Madison: Great week. Nice job staying on pace during the HM.
Mikkey: Laying down a run donuts would be proud of!
Tapering: Tis all a bit of voodoo. I've found a relatively sharp 2 week taper to feel best for me previously, where I'd come down to 70-75 2 weeks out and look to do 50-60 including the marathon on the week of, keeping pretty much all the Q work in place. As my mileage hasn't gotten that high this time around I may even shorten it some more. When it comes to days off, I try and do it 2 days out. I need to have a jog the day before just to make sure that any niggles/tightness doesn't ambush me on race morning.
Strava: If you be on there, let us know.
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
Strong weeks for everyone. I'm continuing to struggle with faster runs. Tue was supposed to be 10 with 5 at 6:30 and I quickly abandoned it. My legs were a bit sore and I just wasn't feeling great. I'm trying to listen to my body better to prevent an injury but just can't seem to get the faster pace runs done. Pleased with the total mileage though.
madison: Great job on the half; if sub 6 pace felt good you should be feeling confident about your PR goal.
Subdood: Nice week and 10k time trial. I did a 10k time trial back in Feb with a LR the next day on the TM; it was not too bad at the time but there definitely was some hangover fatigue into the next week.
JMac: Great job on that VO2 max workout and nice week overall. I thought you were joking on strava when you said you were going to Denmark! That's great; should be some nice scenery and you will avoid the return of the heat/humidity here.
Kram: Nice weeks and happy birthday! Smart to bail on the mile reps if you weren't feeling recovered.
BGS: Big mileage week, very nice. Do you pay attention to HR data? I used to scoff at it but in recent months have found it very useful to guage my level of recovery after LRs and hard workouts. Just thinking it may help you to get your recovery nailed down so you are ready for the hard efforts.
My week went well. I was happy with a MLR (maybe even starting to be a LR?) on Thursday with a 5 mi tempo in the second half. Then I had a rare double the next day to celebrate the perfect weather. I think I was feeling those two days by the time of my long run as I felt kind of dead for it. Was hoping to go 23 and hit 80 for the week but cut it short at 20. Good enough. This week will be low mileage since I am doing a half on Labor Day next Monday and will take Sunday off so no long run.
2:52:16 (2018)
SubDood - I do try to find anything that will give me a bit of an edge so have tried a lot of different things.
I bought the vaporfly 4% last summer and used them in two marathons and some training runs last year. This year I've used them for a couple races and all of my LAT workouts. They feel a bit different since they are very cushy but also very light. I like them very much. Not sure if they actually are any faster than other marathon racing flats. I tie them very tight so they don't slip at all. They feel weird if you get out of rhythm but feel very fast once you get going in them.
I've used endurolytes for years now. I tend to always carry a few of them in a little pill pouch in a pocket in my shorts for runs longer than 15 miles or so. Any time I feel a bit of a tingle in my legs I take one and will take them every 10-15 minutes if necessary. They are just electolyte capsules so with most sports drinks/gels you don't need them unless it is very hot/humid.
Maurten I started using this year and so far I think it is amazing stuff. I can put down 320 calories in about an hour without stomach upset. With gatorade I would typically take in about 150 calories every 1.5-2 hours. The one downside is I don't think the electrolyte mix in it is as good as in gatorade so I do carry endurolytes and end up taking a few when I use this as my sports drink. Maurten is supposed to turn into a gel in your stomach which allows you to absorb more calories without having an upset stomach. I've used perpetuem and sustained energy in the past, more when I was doing ultras and they seem like decent products too, though with them I think I got about 100 calories/hour just like with gatorade.
One other product I will use at my marathon to prevent cramping is hotshot. I'll take one about 15 minutes before the race starts and another at the ~halfway mark. I've used this in previous marathons and it seems to help. I did not use it in my last marathon and I had to slow by ~10-20s/mile for the last 6 miles in order to stave off cramping. Perhaps had I used hotshot I would have PRd.
Also, for those that have asked, I'm not on Strava. I use Eric's awesome running log here on runningahead.com and my log is open for anyone that wants to look at it. I do tend to put pretty detailed notes in about races and sometimes workouts as I often look back at my log to plan for future races/workouts.
JTReeves that is an impressive week. Re: heart rate, my watch tracks it and I do keep an eye on it but I guess I don't really understand how to get any meaningful information from it. I do notice some days are a bit higher or lower than others for comparable runs, so maybe that's what I should be paying more attention to.
Madison interesting on the electrolytes/supplements. I usually take nothing on runs and only have a few Gus in races but maybe I should experiment a bit more and see if other things would work better for me. Probably 95% of my runs are fueled by coffee and water.
Nice to see all the activity going on in here recently!
Madison: Great big week and sounds like a perfectly executed race/workout.
Subdood: Another solid week and nice back to back quality days.
JMAC: Great week and especially more so on just 5 days! Big Daniels style mixed workout/LR on Thursday.
Kram: Nice couple of weeks. Good choice on bailing when things didn't feel right. Lots of training coming up.
BGS: No worries since that was a big mileage week.
JT: Big week. Looks like a solid workout and solid marathon training week there!
Me: Very solid week after a bit of a down week (mileage wise) the week prior. Got in some really nice quality on Wednesday (different paces) and then again Sunday where honestly the 4 at threshold was run a bit too fast since it really felt close to race effort towards the last mile or so. Just need to adjust for the heat a little better next time. Still happy I was able to hit another 7 miles at a moderate pace and make it a LR though.
Weekly Summary Monday, Aug 20, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 26, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
I've run pfitz enough times that it always seems to get me bending to the max, but I feel so depleted. I'm still pretty new with doubles, but the 15,6/4,12 combo over about 36 hours with some of the runs in the 90s did break me to the extent that I was reduced to walking some hills over the last 2.5 miles today. Also started back at work this week after the summer off. Trying to stay positive. About 2 more weeks until my taper and hopefully some better weather is on its way.
Anyway, my question is about Sunday's run... 18 miles with 14@MP. Current forecast shows 70 degrees with 96% humidity. I'm sure I'll recover a bit before then, and the weather is better than what I've seen in a while, but at the end of a 75 mile week, I feel the run is impossible. Do you think it's better to
A. Hold marathon pace for as long as possible.
B. Slow down my pace to a level I think I can hold the whole time (probably MP+ at least 20 seconds)
C. Do something in the middle, with a slow down as time goes on, or inserting breaks
D. Something else
My notes from last year (running in October) show that with marginally better weather I averaged 7:20, which would have been MP+25 seconds, or at the time I thought it was MP+15 seconds. Thanks for any insights.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
JMac, kram, JT — The back-to-back workouts (10k trial, 18-miler) last weekend were not super difficult at the time, but JT’s comment about “hangover fatigue” rang very true this week. I was dragging.
Madtownrunner — thanks for the tips. I’ll give a few of those items a try. I hadn’t heard much about hotshots directly from other runners, but I’m willing to try it to avoid cramping.
Re: Strava, I’m also not a user. I have a lot of data here on RA and am also a fan of Eric’s work. I have notes saved with almost every run over the last 7 years and use the various features (e.g., custom reports, pretty graphs, calendar, training plans, I can look up how many miles I’ve run in each pair of shoes I own, etc). So I really can’t imagine starting a new system for all that stuff.
sling — 14 at MP in those conditions will be rough. I’ve got the same workout coming up, but it should be cooler here, possibly raining. It’s intimidating on the schedule; everything after Sunday looks easier. I don’t have a good answer on how to approach it given the forecast — I’d probably go with “c,” and try to minimize the slowdown, but not fight it too much.
I think you should slow down, but 20 seconds seems excessive given the weather. I'd go for MP+10. Better IMO to do that and bail after 12 if you're dead vs just trying to get through MP+20
Thanks for the feedback Jmac and Sub. I'll think about it. I might just do it on my treadmill where I think I'll be able to stay closer to MP. I do agree that the schedule gets a tad easier from here on out. I have a 10K next weekend that should give me good data. Last year in back to back weeks before my fall marathon, I ran an 8K in 75 degrees, and a 10K in 50 degrees, so I think those two races will allow me to adjust for temperature well this year to see if under 3 hrs is likely.
Mmmm Bop
I’ve done MP runs on the treadmill in previous cycles in 5k intervals (peaked at 5x5 with 2/3min recovery walk breaks). But, the treadmill is easier and eg, 6:52 pace outside for me would be the HR equivalent of around 6:40 pace on the treadmill.
If running it outside then I’d go with MP effort/HR
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
I’ve done MP runs on the treadmill in previous cycles in 5k intervals (peaked at 5x5 with 2/3min recovery walk breaks). But, the treadmill is easier and eg, 6:52 pace outside for me would be the HR equivalent of around 6:40 pace on the treadmill. If running it outside then I’d go with MP effort/HR
Thanks. I converted my treadmill into the Taj Mahal with every possible resource, and ran the 14 miles at 6:40. I was able to play around with the elevation to mirror the ending of the course a bit too. It was surprisingly easily actually, and I ran the final .5 at 12mph which actually has me now worrying that the calibration may be off (it was my first speed run since putting in a new motor and controller). I felt I had another half mile in me, and there is no way I have the fitness to be running a 5 minute mile, especially at the end of a workout. Hope everyone else has a good long run today. Thanks for talking me off the edge. How did yours go go Subdood?
Nice run, slingrunner. Regardless of the potential calibration issues with your TM, you finished strong and got it done.
I probably made my run more difficult than it needed to be. I ate lots of Mexican food last night, along with a margarita. Then this morning, I took 2 of those Endurolyte capsules before my run. My stomach got upset and I had to delay my run until things settled down. When I finally headed out, it was 70 F and humid. I ran the first 5.5 miles at an easy pace, then began the MP portion. My average pace during the MP portion was 6:52.2, and I was able to finish all 14 miles, so I am very pleased with it.
I feel completely wiped out now. There is a nap in my future.