Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Nice job Mikkey and 37 marathons in 10 years is very impressive!
Finbad that is a fast long run to cap off an 80 mile week.
Subdood I'm sure you are ready to taper. You've been putting in a lot of miles and the Pfitz plans are pretty grueling. Hope the hamstring doesn't give you any more trouble.
Madison I don't think I've ever used "easy" and "VO2 max" in the same sentence. Sounds like you are ready to go!
My week was a cut back week which I was more than ready for. Nothing too notable here. The plan is starting to call for doubles. I really dislike running after work so I just combine the mileage into a morning run. I assume there isn't any real downside to doing that.
Amazing time by Kipchoge (GOAT). Nothing really to add there just to comment how crazy fast that is and how absurd it is to smash it by that much!
Nice race Mikkey. Way to hang in there when things got tough. Enjoy a bit of R&R.
Madison: BIg week and enjoy that taper.
Subdood: NIce looking week especially with being sick and travel. Hope everything heals itself.
Fin: NIce big week! Super solid (and fast) LR there on Sat!
JT: Safe travels!
Me: Happy with my week overall as I kind of moved into what Daniels would call Phase III is his HM training plan which includes moving from shorter R intervals to longer I paced intervals. As I said before I'm kind of fusing together a 2Q and 3Q (Phase III) plan to fit what I think works best for me right now. Basically, just trying to focus on some faster paced intervals (mid week) and then threshold or longer tempo or M paced stuff on the weekends with decent volume in between. Come the cooler weather (late October maybe?) I'll try to nail some longer sustained threshold or even HM effort repeats to try and get an idea of what I a realistic HM goal might be. 2 mile repeats of that were enough for me in this heat yesterday! This coming week will be a slight step back in the mileage as I'm trying to do that every 3rd or 4th week as well.
Weekly Summary Monday, Sep 10, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 16, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
RIP Milkman
Kipchoge - If anyone has full race coverage in English I'd love to watch. Really wish the race was at a reasonable time for us in the US.
Mikkey - I want to second what Finbad said: the ability to just keep holding on and not completely blowing up was really impressive. 37 marathons is something I can't even fathom. Your motivation to keep going is definitely inspirational. Also, if you ever want to run NYC again, I can convince my own DW that I need to run it again...
Madison - best of luck with the taper. Always the hardest part of marathon training for me.
Subdood - What's going on with your hamstring? I just developed my own (see below) and am looking for advice.
Finbad - That Saturday run was unbelievable for someone who has just been doing 10ks. Well done.
BGS - Unfortunately there is a major downside to just combining all the miles. The point of doubles is that you are trying to do a recovery run, but need more miles in the week. You can't just combine a 6 and a 4 mile run into one 10 miler and think it serves the same purpose. 4 miles after work can't be that bad!
Weather - Great week. Your training through the summer months has been unbelievable. I think you probably have the biggest potential in this forum to absolutely smash some PRs at the end of this year once the cooler weather comes (which, if I know Florida, is not late October )
Me - I developed a hamstring issue this week. It started out as just feeling off (tight, sore), but has localized more in the tendons that connect the hamstring to the knee. I had this same issue in my other leg about 1.5 years ago and it took a good 6 months to get rid of, but I was able to run through it, granted I was only doing about 30 MPW at the time. It doesn't feel too bad during easy runs, but it flared up during the last 3 miles of my run on Sunday. I'm trying to continue rolling the area and using heat, but will take any advice people have. I've heard conflicting things about whether stretching actually helps or hurts hamstring issues, and also whether to use ice or heat. Anyway, I decided to enter a half marathon to get my MP work in, mainly for the nutrition aid and the motivation of it being a race. I'm really glad I did, because I was cooked around mile 10 of the race. It felt like I was racing it, not running MP. I'm not too worried though because the weather was horribly hot (78-80 during the race with full sun), so I imagine that really impacted me. I've only run one other race in weather like that, and it really demonstrates to me how hot weather gets exponentially worse the longer you run. I have no idea how anyone ran Boston in '16 or '17, or London this year. I was able to keep around 6:35. I need to get both my 10 mile race in in a couple of weekends and another MP effort to figure out whether I should go for sub 2:50 or just go for a PR.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Sep 10, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 16, 2018
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Mikkey – I will follow your advice and keep the pace in check during the taper to protect my hamstrings. It’s way too close to a goal race to risk blowing up completely attempting another set of intervals. (There is one more in this plan – 3 x 1600m – scheduled next week. I’ll do something else.)
Kipchoge - If anyone has full race coverage in English I'd love to watch. Really wish the race was at a reasonable time for us in the US
I really hope Kipchoge responds!
BGS – I’m really not an expert, but my understanding of the Pfitz “doubles” is what JMac explained. A single 10-miler would not seem to have the same recovery benefit of an easy 6 and an easy 4 (a.m. and p.m.), even if you ran it really slowly. I skipped a lot of the afternoon 4-milers earlier in the plan (and just did the 6-miler), or replaced the 4 miles in the p.m. with cycling on an exercise bike or using an elliptical trainer, all at a very easy effort. That was part of my bargain with myself when starting this plan that peaks at 85 mpw. BTW, I liked the 8:52 pace you ran for your Monday recovery run per your report – that’s almost as slow as I run those!
JMac – In my case, my right hamstring started to tighten up during an Intervals workout last week. I was traveling for work, so I was doing Intervals on a hotel treadmill in NYC. The plan was 6 x 1200m at 5K pace, which sounded like a lot all of a sudden; the Pfitz plan had seemed fairly light on this type of work prior to this workout. I even set the speed a bit slower than my normal 5k race pace. Anyhow, on the 5th repeat, I could feel some tightness beginning in my right hamstring, and I probably should’ve skipped the 6th one. Nope, I'm not smart enough to listen to my body. I ran the 6th repeat and could feel the hamstring tightening as I went. I have taken it very easy every day after that, and the tightness and soreness is diminishing. Yesterday, I ran the last Long Run of this plan (~21.5 miles) and did not feel the hamstring issue after about the 5 mile point. It seems to have mostly resolved itself over the course of about 5 days. Mine was located in the middle of the hamstring muscle (not near the knee like yours), with a very localized soreness. I don’t know what advice to give for your situation – in my case, stretching and rolling it definitely seem to help, but I understand that that might be the wrong advice for a slightly different issue. I hope it doesn’t take 6 months to heal!
Weatherboy – getting chased by dogs makes me crazy. I run early in the morning, when it’s pretty dark out. I had a dog chase me recently down a country road where I couldn’t really see the dog until it got fairly close; I could hear it running and panting behind me. It stopped (thankfully) and ran back to its house, but my heart rate must’ve nearly maxed out for a minute or two after that.
Mikkey: 37 marathons... that is damn impressive! The next one will be a 2:4x.
Subdood: Hope you are feeling better and the hamstring is ok. Solid week despite the setbacks.
Madison and Fin: Nice weeks!
BGS: I hear you on not being fond of doubles; it is tough for me to get in the mindset of running after getting home from work in the evening.
Weather: Strong week. I think you will cut a big chunk of your already fast HM PR based on your training the last few months. Good idea by the way to cut thing back every 3rd or 4th week. A rare treadmill run in there for you I see!
JMac: Great week; you are there aerobically for the 2:50, just need to get that hamstring in order. I don;t have experience with that type of injury, but some on here may have (Andres and Weather come to mind). I hope it fades quickly.
Me: last week was all easy as I was recovering from the 10 mile TT. Daniels recommends 1 easy day per 3k of race distance, so I was due about 5 1/3 days easy. The long run was easy pace but very long so I guess that counts as a bit of quality. Now I am in Germany for a few days and getting in some slow but hilly runs with colleagues from here. Also a bit too much alcohol in the evenings. On the plus side it is very nice weather here; cool and low humidity in the mornings so perfect for running. I will try to get in some quality when I am back in the US.
2:52:16 (2018)
JMac and SubDood thanks for the explanation on doubles-its been a while since I read the book. I suppose that's one of the areas I just don't understand with the Pfitz plans. I've modified his plan but I believe it has a Sun LR, Mon off, and Tue recovery. I guess I don't understand the need for a recovery day after an off day. And since I've replaced the Mon off with a recovery, I'm thinking Tue recovery is not as important. Then again, he's made a career on marathon training and I'm still trying to learn. The reality is I probably just wouldn't do the afternoon runs due to family/work/life responsibilities.
Also SubDood I can't take full credit for that slower run but I'm sure it was good for me. I ran into a guy I know and we ran together for a bit and he runs much slower than I do. I am trying to slow down my easy days though. I have a hard deadline to be home on weekday mornings so sometimes despite my best intentions I need to run faster than planned.
Hope you guys can work out the hamstring issues. I've been dealing with some tightness/discomfort on the back of my left hamstring/ass but think/hope it may be more related to not having a lot of cushioning there and sitting on a cheap desk chair all day.
JTReeves hope you enjoy the trip. Sounds like a great one (minus the work part)!
JMac: You can watch it on the Olympic channel; they will probably reshow it several times. Looks like it is scheduled for this Saturday at 3:00 PM EST to replay. You could also check NBCSN (that is where I recorded it) but they don't generally seem to replay things.
BigSkinny- We all recover differently, but for me I find that even two days after a long run, my body is not always ready to go...especially at this late point in the pfitz cycle. Today is a good example for me... I tried postponing this week's off day until Tuesday, but my legs were completely off, and I had to abort today's "run" halfway through. Kind of ironic on the day I got accepted into Boston I couldn't even run 4 miles without walking.
2 Questions-
1. I have a 5k (2 weeks out from marathon) this Sunday. Do you think it is safe to run all out in a ~2.5 mile free trailrace Thursday night? They usually are pretty hilly (I won't go full out on downhills to avoid injuries).
2. The 5k is pancake flat. I've never run that distance though in a race. My 10K PR is 39:04, and I think I have similar or slightly better fitness now. If conditions improve (currently mid60s and rainy) what might be a good target for 5K? I was thinking something 19:15ish? I feel like in most of my 10Ks it doesn't seem like I could have run a lot quicker early without blowing up. I really do not race well in anything above mid50s though.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Hi guys!
This is my first post since like year 2016 when RunnersWorld forum still existed (btw, I lost all the race reports I saved there due to missing the information about their closing out). Anyway, I used to be a very active poster there and I am a big fan of Mikkey as I totally admire of him being totally non politically correct and telling his opinion whatever it is. I am so tired of people saying all the time what everybody expects them to say and thinking totally different. Society is really losing sincerity and becoming some live theater of a kind. But that's another story. So, where I am. ah, yes....
So, lost my job last year and either because of my age (50+) or because I just lost some edge in my skills (or probably both) I could not find a new job for more than 5 months. That was a biggest blow to my self-esteem that I experienced probably since like forever. Logically, running took a hit and in at some months got to 7 miles a month (btw, sorry for my English, I am not native speaker as many may see that already). At that period of "new discovery" I found out (big surprise, right?) that running is not what brings food to the table. I put all my energy to getting more relevant and skillful in my field (I am a software developer). Now, 25 pounds later and finally having some constant job for almost a year, I am getting back to some running (worth mentioning my wife told me I start looking like a pig). Why I am writing this you would ask? Nobody really cares and I know that. So, yes, sorry to all the guys I don't know here but I mostly write this for people who knew me from RunnersWorld - I disappeared without warning and I know that Mikkey asked me to come back few times and I just trying to explain that I left not because I hated Mikkey or Sean so much (Sean - seriously, I don't hate you :-) but mostly to the sudden chain of events which was the layoff from my seemed to be so stable job at the time. Also, I do not expect any feedback from most of you guys whom I don't know - because I saw it so many times previously - some new guy shows up and expects all the attention will be on him and expects everybody answering/responding to his posts without him doing any "communicating back job" himself. I think I mostly would like to get back to more normal life and this post could be some kind of a mark.
For anybody who is interested here is my short bio:
Never run at all (except being a small town soccer player till age 18) until I was 46 yo when I somehow got an idea that running a marathon would be a cool thing to do. I remember vividly my first runs in a gym - 30 minutes sessions - 10 minutes run 5 minutes walk - twice - was exhausted after that. Not sure what helped to keep me motivated but I think I was in such a bad shape that at some point I remember I had these migraines and a short 30 minutes run at a gym was helping me getting rid of those migraines in minutes (seriously, I was shocked at the time how well it worked - blood flow probably?). In 2 months after I started running, I ran my first 5K ever in 22:24 and then a month later I run my first half marathon in 1:42:24, I think. I was hooked. Ran my first marathon in Aug 2011 in 3:31 - had a goal of sub 3:30 but made a rookie mistake not realizing that the distance your GPS showing will not be 26.2 but like 0.2 miles longer - miscalculation (keep your GPS pace 2-3 seconds faster than the goal pace)
After that I was hooked even more - few months later I ramped up my mileage to 70mpw, got my first sub 3 in Mar 2013 in Los Angeles, ramping my mileage more and more, got a Moose Mug in Dec 2015, got interested in ultra running - ran 4 100Ks with a goal to qualify for Western States 100 - so, far after 3 lotteries no luck there. All these years I ran more and more, I think in the summer and fall of the year right before the layoff I ran few weeks in a range of 115-150 mpw. Everything seemed to be so good back then and then - bam!! - layoff, my eyes finally opened and I cannot close them since then... Running is great but it takes so much time and it is just running - supposed to be a hobby and only works great if you are very good at your main skill.
Ok, back to reality. I am running CIM this December and need some motivation. Pretty sure Mikkey is the right person for that. Any volunteers are welcome too . So... So far this year I ran 485 miles. 62 of them was Miwok 100K. So, basically I ran 420 miles. I ran 0 miles in June, July and August. Started to run on Sep 1st. Every other day. My last two weeks were 21 and 39 miles. Almost all at 9x pace. The longest was this past Saturday - 17 miles at 9:20 pace. My question for Mikkey and for whoever is willing to chime in - can I run sub 3 on Dec 2nd?
Again, sorry for rude intervention - hopefully I didn't offend anybody.
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Holy shit it's Calbears You're like a legend on this thread and over at the old RWOL. I started posting in late 2016 so we may have missed paths, but it's always good to see an old timer come back from those days!
I think Mikkey is indeed your best bet for advice. Have you even remotely tried anything approaching race pace at shorter distances? Even something like a 5K/10K? Your endurance base from the past is probably super helpful for getting sub 3, but impossible to tell what sort of fitness you're currently at.
Calbears - you tub of lard !! You're going to provide me with the motivation I need too. My last sub 3 was CIM a few years back, but I could only manage 3:09 last year. If you're going to go for it on 0 miles this summer, and you're a couple of years older - then fuck it - I need to try and match you. See you on the start line !!
______________________________________________________________________________
17:50 ('11) 37:23 ('16) 1.23:02 ('13) 2:53:22 ('13)
2019: Leadville 50, Leadville 100, CIM
It's alive!!!
Welcome back you evil communist (yay 2018) and great to hear things are looking up once more... I believe you have a zombie moose to slay sir!
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
Calbears: It is truly great to see you posting here, and I am not bullshitting on that. I was too slow to post in your thread back in the old RWOL (was in the sparsely populated 3:10 group) but I always loved reading your posts in the 2:50 group. Please stick around, you have a lot of wisdom and character that we all would appreciate. And with 3 months to go till CIM, I would not count you out for sub 3. It will take some serious dedication, but I think you already know that, and you also know exactly what needs to be done training wise. So just do it!
BTW, besides Mikkey, most the former 2:50 thread guys seem to have dropped this thread unfortunately. Too cool, too fast, who knows why... But there is a good group of new folks here. If only Cinnamon would return.... she disappeared a long time ago. Also TN Weather is doing great on strava so he may start posting here again eventually.
Mother of Cats
. Not sure what helped to keep me motivated but I think I was in such a bad shape that at some point I remember I had these migraines and a short 30 minutes run at a gym was helping me getting rid of those migraines in minutes (seriously, I was shocked at the time how well it worked - blood flow probably?).
/delurks
Calbears! Yay!!!!
And also noting that I've had the same experience with migraines and running, and it was similarly part of the reason I got hooked. My Neurologist told me that it was endorphins>
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
CaliB!!!