Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
JMac - Well, now they're predicting an 11 mph headwind, so who knows.
Cal - I'm 37 and now have quite a few sub 3s to my name. But from marathon #1 in 1999 until October 2010 I had broken 3 just once, at Boston in 2002 (2:55, my 4th marathon). In marathon #18 in October 2010 I broke 3 for the second time (another 2:55). In 2010 I ran 200+ miles every month and in 2011 I ran 250+ miles each month. In October of 2011 I ran a 2:48 and then 4 weeks later a 2:41. The 2:48 was expected - my goal was sub 2:50. The 2:41 was not. It was in a race I had won the previous year and just went for the win. I didn't wear a watch, felt great, and really surprised myself. To prove it was no fluke I went out to CIM in December 2011 and ran 2:39. I have been chasing that 2:39 ever since. I've come close to PRing but never had everything line up just perfectly again. Hopefully this year is the year. I really think it was the consistency that led to my breakthrough.
JMac - Well, now they're predicting an 11 mph headwind, so who knows. Cal - I'm 37 and now have quite a few sub 3s to my name. But from marathon #1 in 1999 until October 2010 I had broken 3 just once, at Boston in 2002 (2:55, my 4th marathon). In marathon #18 in October 2010 I broke 3 for the second time (another 2:55). In 2010 I ran 200+ miles every month and in 2011 I ran 250+ miles each month. In October of 2011 I ran a 2:48 and then 4 weeks later a 2:41. The 2:48 was expected - my goal was sub 2:50. The 2:41 was not. It was in a race I had won the previous year and just went for the win. I didn't wear a watch, felt great, and really surprised myself. To prove it was no fluke I went out to CIM in December 2011 and ran 2:39. I have been chasing that 2:39 ever since. I've come close to PRing but never had everything line up just perfectly again. Hopefully this year is the year. I really think it was the consistency that led to my breakthrough.
Consistency and talent. Great combo.
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
Mmmm Bop
Never any flukes if you train hard for a marathon...but everything needs to be right on the day for that perfect race and time!
Loved that you didn’t wear a watch and surprised yourself....I started running in 2007 and looking back at history I think Steve Jones WR marathon back in 1984 at Chicago excited me the most as he ran watchless and from what I’ve read about him since, he’d be my ideal coach rather than a numbers guy!
Anyone else got a favourite race from the history books that gave them goose bumps?
Subdood - Good to see that you’re feeling positive...and rightly so as you’ve been smart and paid attention to how you feel. 👍
JMac - Good luck tomorrow, I think a former poster (squirrel) is running the same race. Make sure to record the final day of the Ryder Cup and see Europe crush USA. 😂
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
RIP Milkman
Thanks Mikkey. I think I remember squirrel: was he the guy with the cats? I think he was injured most of last year right? Also, in terms of goosebumps, I think Meb’s win in Boston the year after the bombing takes the cake. He was almost 39, first American to win in 30 years, and did it the year right after the course was bombed? Can’t beat that.
Also, the US has looked terrible, but they always do when the event is in Europe. Tiger has been terrible especially after actually winning! I really had written him off as a competitive golfer, had to eat my words.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Dave Wottle winning the 800m gold medal at the 1972 Olympics:
https://youtu.be/5LHid-nC45k
Our entire family sat around the TV watching it together (not unusual back then). We thought he looked goofy with his hat, and we were all laughing when he fell way behind in the first lap. As he started passing runners, we stood and screamed and laughed even harder. I remember how hysterical we got when he won! The video of it gives me goosebumps now, although there are some family memories and emotions mixed in.
Mikkey — Thanks for the positive vibes!
JMac — I usually don’t get too “crazy” during tapering, although spending last week with the middle-school kids tested my limits. How is your hamstring issue?
madison — I cannot imagine going watchless for a marathon, even though I’ve heard many similar stories of people surprising themselves with good results when they do it. That said, I am going to do my best to ignore my watch during the marathon, especially in the first half.
Great question. I have to list more than just one...
1. 1996 Olympic 10,000m final. Geb's first Olympic gold. I was on vacation with my family at the time and insisted on staying in the hotel room to watch this race; it was definitely worth it. Love the race commentary by Brendan Foster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVBb4_KMaTk
2. Bob Kempainen in the 1996 US Olympic marathon trials. Towards the end of the race he vomited several times but did not stop, kept going through it all. Hardcore. I always admired him as he was going through medical school while training and competing at that level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRvrxqlOSpI&t=3s
3. David Rudisha's 800m win/WR in the London Olympics. Just a majestic run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKEOjWEzVGs
4. A recent addition: Kipchoge's Berlin WR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV-Lvbl3Z6w&t=6323s
JMac: Good luck at the 10 miler tomorrow, you will crush it!
2:52:16 (2018)
Thanks for the clips JT and SubDood....the Dave Wottle race was fantastic and loved that he was introduced as the guy with the golf cap! 😂
JMac - Yes squirrel has the cats....he seems to be running well, but you’ll probably beat him by a couple of minutes. 😉
Hey guys!
madisonrunner - thanks for sharing your running background - I see that it was still a lot of hard work plus some talent obviously - but man, you started running marathons so early.
the marathon season seems to be finally starting! one week till Chicago!
My week:
Mon - off
Tue - 12.06mi @8:44
Wed - 11.35mi @9:04
Thu - 11:33mi @9:06
Fri - off
Sat - 22.12mi @8:27
Sun - off
===
Total: 56.8mi
Still long way to go but quite a difference the way I felt on ,my long run yesterday comparing to a week ago. Basically didn't feel too bad until maybe mile 15-16. I wish my excessive 20+ lbs also started to disappear - so far in 3 weeks I maybe lost 2lbs, somebody told me the first 10lbs will come off easy - I guess that's not easy for 50+ yo
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Sub - Hamstring is still touch and go, but I was able to race on it today with any major issues. Definitely felt sore after the race though. The thing about it is that it’s traveling: sometimes it’s higher up, sometimes it’s left side, sometimes it’s right side. Whenever that happens, I know it’s not a “real” injury and just a fascial issue. I had major fascial issues before I started running more seriously 2 years ago, where everything in my gluteus, adductors, and abductors would be in pain. It took a good 6 months of working through it with a doctor’s needle to get it out. At the time I didn’t know that (thought I had something more serious) but learning about myofascial release has saved my running.
Mikkey - What’s his name on Strava? I never really followed him because right when I joined up (summer last year) he was out for injury.
Me - Had my big fitness test race today, the Bronx 10 mile. I set a goal of sub 60 and came home in 58:30, so I’m super pumped. I wrote a (very long) race report over in the sub 90 HM thread if anyone cares for the details. It was a new PR for the distance, but the pace was also faster than my current 10K PR, so nice to hit a two for one. One major takeaway I had was how far I’ve come since I really started getting more serious a couple of years ago. I was stuck at the 6:00 pace for 5K for so long, and finally broke it last year. Then, I was able to break 6:00 for a 10K this year, and now I’m able to go sub 6:00 for a 10 miler. Most importantly for this forum, I think that this race lines me up to go for 2:50 at NYC assuming good weather. I do have one more test which is a half marathon at MP in 2 weeks. I plan to also use that race to practice gels as I haven’t done a great job this cycle with prepping my stomach for that part of marathons.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Sep 24, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 30, 2018
Kram: Great last couple of weeks. The mileage is getting back up and the T workouts look great as usual. Also looks like the insane LRs with huge MP segments are creeping back in... good sign!
Finbad: Nice week and good luck with the half; wish I could run a 77 while sandbagging!
JMac: Outstanding job on the 10 mile race! That time puts you easily in sub 2:50 territory, even for the NYC course. Actually, the Daniels calculator puts that as equivalent to a 2:43 marathon!
Cal: Nice looking week and good job getting the LR up to 22. As far as the weight, better 2 lbs lost than gained! It should keep coming down with the sustained mileage.
Madison: Thanks for posting the background info. Based on your cycle, it looks like this will be when you break that 2:39 PR. Fingers crossed the weather turns out well for it.
My week: nothing exciting; I had a track session yesterday which was intended to be 4 x 1600m, but I went out too fast on the first one (5:34) and it quickly degraded to a less ambitious descending ladder workout. Anyway, it was still 4k of fast running which is probably good enough at this point.
Unfortunately, I think I have caught a cold as of this morning. My son got one a few days ago so I knew there was a chance I would get it. Hopefully I can get over it quickly, with less than 2 weeks till my marathon. Good thing is I will be tapering and trying to get more rest anyway which should help.
The description of training and race effort in From Last to First by Charlie Spedding as he discusses winning London marathon 1984 then working straight through to get Bronze in the LA Olympics a short time later is really great. Some of his key marathon sessions are proper mind-blowing too.
Also, Yuki Kawauchi at Boston last year was fantastic, especially the early pacing.
Subdood/Madison/Sling - all looking good to go.
Madison - I've pocketed my watch during a race a few times just so I've got the electronic record later on. Your 2:41 is pretty inspiration coming off the back of 2:48, maybe I'll go watchless next weekend.
Cal - really good looking week, it's pretty fun watching fitness gains in real time.
JMac - hell of a 10 miler, great job. Good pace progression too.
JT - "Finbad: Nice week and good luck with the half; wish I could run a 77 while sandbagging!". Ha, so far all I've done is say that I'll do it. Le'ts see.
my week - Good overall, did a couple of miles tempo on Thursday that came out at in the 5:40's which was very positive but should have slowed some of the easy runs a bit more. Completed a 300 Mile month so the consistency is there.
Upcoming; 14th Sep Scottish veterans XC trials, 289th Sep Great Scottish Run 1/2, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k
JMAC: Congrats on a great race and fitness check. Like I mentioned on strava I think this proves you are in great shape. Certainly looks like a sub 2:50 to me no matter the course. Hopefully the weather corporate.
Kram: As others have said looks like you are rounding into great shape again.
Fin: Nice looking week. Good luck with the 1/2.
Cal: Nice job getting the mileage back up. Nice big LR in there as well!
Madison: Interesting progression on your marathon times. Sounds a bit similar to mine (albeit slightly slower) where I was stuck just above 3 hrs for a few years with bad luck on the weather and perhaps so so fitness, but then finally cracked a sub 2:49 last winter (on a warm day). Nice week as well.
JT: Still a good week overall. Agree with you that it was still a great workout especially for leg turnover. Hope the cold eases up soon. Honestly not the worst time to have one anyways, but may provide some taper madness?
My week: Adjusted the volume of the speed downward just a tad compared to previous weeks, but more than made up for it with hot & humid running even by my standards. We closed the month of September as the warmest on record where our average overall temperature was 83.6 in Melbourne! Tampa even set their all time monthly record (for any month) at 85.9 F!! Many of the nights never dipped down past 81 or 82 for that matter. The Wednesday run, starting just after sunrise was especially tough and I estimate I lost a good 7-8 pounds of water towards the end. Think my HR was essentially into the tempo range for the last 4-5 miles. Hopefully in another few weeks we will see some relief
Weekly Summary Monday, Sep 24, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 30, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
I know we still have time for it to improve, but the forecast for my race this weekend is getting worse. Instead of previous upper 40s moving into low 60s, it is now 60->68 or so by the finish with humidity averaging 87%. I'm a kinda freakin out. I think on my course I had some cushion under 3 hours but I'm afraid it might not be enough. Getting a cold too, but hopefully enough time to deal with that. I've scoured the Internet for the effect this would have on performance, and I've seen everything from 2 minutes slower to 15 minutes slower. In only slightly worse conditions a few weeks ago I ran a 10K about 90 seconds slower than I think I would have with cool weather. I don't want to keep running this high mileage anymore, so this could be my last chance.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
JMac nice job, that race has to be a huge confidence boost.
Calbears that looks like a fast volume increase. Weight shouldn't be a concern for long with those distances I wouldn't think.
Madison those are very impressive times. I don't think there is any amount of miles I could run to get to your paces.
Finbad, Weatherboy I don't know how you consistently run those distances and paces without breaking down. Nice job.
Sling I hope the weather improves. It often seems like the forecast isn't too much better than a guess so hopefully you'll get better than you are expecting.
Subdood a week long middle school camping trip sounds like good mental prep for the race! Hope you are healing up during the taper.
JT hope the cold doesn't last. You guys have had great cycles and I expect with a little rest and halfway decent weather should have great races.
Apologies to anyone I have missed. My week was not too noteworthy. I did something to my left hamstring/glute that is giving me some discomfort so I'm backing off the intensity and trying to stretch/roll it and still keep the miles. Also almost got hit by a car on Sun morning. I did learn a valuable lesson though. As I'm approaching an intersection where left-right traffic has a red light, even though I have right of way, a headlamp, and am in the crosswalk, a car coming from my left that is making a right turn (toward the direction I am coming from) often just looks left and if no cars are coming just cruises through the light without ever looking to the right or stopping. That was my closest call yet and I'll be more careful in that situation going forward.
JT - I would be crazy to go out in sub 2:45 pace. That is how you blow up in the marathon. Daniels conversion charts are always too aggressive on that M pace section. My plan most likely is to try to tick off 6:25-6:30 per mile for the first 20, and then either hold on for dear life or pick it up from there like I did last year. I waited a bit too long last year (mile 24) to pick it up because I had only one marathon of experience to judge how I should feel at mile 19 or so. Now that I know what I felt like last year at 19, I'll have a better idea of whether I'm doing okay or not. I hope the cold gets better, it's like you caught it at a perfect time, much better than the week of the race!
Finbad - 300 miles in a month is a huge accomplishment, well done.
Weather - Thanks! You are getting destroyed by the weather. I am SO glad to be done with 150+ TDP runs, the fact that you are still dealing with it is crazy. You have some serious fitness that will be unlocked with cooler weather. My race was 58 at the start with DP in the mid 40's. My arms were actually a bit chilly after all the summer running!
Sling - I checked your forecast, looks like TDP of around 130, which is not horrific but not great. Combined with your cold, I would estimate you need to slow down by about 5 minutes. Hopefully you were in sub 2:55 shape and can still get that done.
BGS - I learned that lesson in high school running XC. It's funny you mentioned it, because I ALWAYS think about that exact issue when I am running anywhere in the suburbs since people really aren't used to pedestrians, so they don't consider that there may be somebody coming from their right. I run behind cars now at intersections.