2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 453 times)

OMR - nice LR!!!

Saucony Endorphin Speeds are SWEET.  Super comfy.  Good for training or racing.  Near-supershoe (ie nylon plate is not quite as stiff as carbon plate)... still gives some of that kangaroo-forefoot vaulting action.  $160.

OMR - I'm thinking 87-ish is probably where I am right now.  Solid week for you, and congrats on your restraint in not finding 0.2 of a mile on Sunday night.

Taper - McMillan has an book "Surviving the Marathon Freakout" that has lots of good stuff in it.  I particularly like his emphasis that the final period of time before the race should not be referred to as "tapering" but as "peaking."

Endorphin Speeds - thoughts on them as a 5K-10K race shoe?  I know a LOT of people that are using them for weekly track workouts, but for me the injury risk makes them a no go for that purpose.

I guess I should just buy a pair and see what I think.  But the fact that I'm not crazy about the Endorphin Pro makes me a bit reluctant to buy another shoe in the same family.

The Speeds would be a good race shoe for 5k-marathon ...but not as good as next%.

 

I guess "near-supershoe" is a niche which doesn't NEED to exist (ie why not use regular shoes for training and your favorite supershoe for racing?)

 

I haven't run in the Endorphin Pro, but I've tried them on ... the Speed's upper feels more secure/padded and the plate is less stiff.  Again, the Speeds are really comfortable for any speed running for me.

Thanks.  Your underlined point is essentially my current habit.   And if the Speeds are good, but not as good as Next%, then I guess I stay with Next% for shorter races.  My main complaint with all Nikes (including the VF) is poor traction on wet pavement.  But Saucony is no better in that regard.

I have to admit, I cringe a little bit when I see people doing track workouts in high stack shoes - it makes my ankles hurt just watching.  But I guess other people aren't as sensitive to lateral stresses on their ankles.

It does seem like it's harder and harder to find low stack shoes for speed work. I've got several boxes of Adios 2 and 4 left, but I'm thinking I may buy some Asics Tartheredge as well, just to branch out a bit.  (I like the Adios 5 for long runs with marathon pace work, but it's a bit clunky for the track)

OMR: Great week, I'm glad things are going well for you. Thanks for the link on muscle tension. I actually remember many years ago on the old RWOL thread NACN (I always kind of cringed as a chemist at that handle...sodium cyanide!! though he meant it as an acronym for Need Another Clever Name) introduced this concept to me. I had a greatly simplified view of it as just doing some fast running in the final week to keep the tension. In practice, I run a fast mile in my final run before the marathon (this was 3 days out from the race, and is usually a 5 mile run). But maybe I need to add a bit more in the way of short strides? I found the running surface aspect of the article interesting: hard surfaces being better for increasing tension. That would also require a change for me since any run I do 10 miles or less is all dirt by default.

JMac: Great that you are adjusting to the elevation! BTW, I think one reason my taper might look more extreme is I always take Monday off running, even in the taper week (on that Sunday I do my final "long" run which is usually 12-14 miles), so it you look at the week, starting from Monday, with a Saturday race (most of my marathons have been Saturdays) it would be 0 8 5 0 0 for the 5 days prior, and if it's a Sunday race it would be 0 8 8 5 0 0 for the 6 days prior. This upcoming one is on Sunday so maybe I'll do 0 8 8 5 0 3. Any suggestions are welcome.

Speaking of elevation, I just read "Out of Thin Air" which I highly recommend (I suspect DW has already read it). It's about a guy who lives in Ethiopia for over a year and trains with elite runners. He's an anthropologist and wants to study how the athletes live and have come to be such great runners, and he is also a pretty fast runner himself (sub 50 min 10 miles, 65 min half), so he was actually able to keep up with them for a lot of the training. Anyway, several aspects of the Ethiopian training stood out to me:

1. They run at some extreme elevations. Not all the time, but regularly they go up to an area around 10,000 ft and most training is between 8,000-9,000 ft.

2. They rarely run on pavement/concrete. They almost have a fear of it and it's considered dangerous in significant amounts. Basically, they are anti-DW in terms of running surfaces . This aspect was really interesting. They do speedwork mostly on grass fields, long tempo type work and long runs on a special sort of rough dirt road, and easy runs in the eucalyptus forests in the hills. These latter are done very slowly and mostly off-trail, just randomly running with lots of zig-zagging and a lot of turning and steep cambers along the sides of hills (again, very anti-DW). Runs on pavement are saved for special hard long runs prepping for races. Running on a track is also rarely done since there are only 2 tartan tracks in the whole country.

3. They pay little attention to some of the dietary obsessions Western runners have, like getting carbs/protein within 20 min of a workout. Diet is simple and minimal, water is the main liquid and meat is a rare treat.

Is this an indication that you are training/racing?

Knees seem to be calming down in the last couple of months.  But I still don't trust 'em....

My mileage is around 25mpw.  I went to my 1st club workout in 2 years last week... made me SO happy!

and welcome back to CalBearsFan!!!

Cal - Get on the track and run a 5000m TT.  I’ve made it easy for you as beating 19:11 shouldn’t be a problem for someone of your talent. 

Bill Gates will be pleased to know that I’m getting my first vaccination this afternoon. 

Calbears!  Welcome back!  I refer to that layer you describe as a "cocoon" - good for recovery.

Mikkey - don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but after your first jab you can post on this board without accessing a computer or phone - pretty neat.  Gates did a good job.

Rovatti - that first workout had to feel good!

JTReeves - yup, I've read it.  I second your recommendation.  And yes, I don't think I'd last very long over there .  I found it interesting how the author would describe his feelings at being SO SLOW, and his fears of finishing dead last or being lapped in a race.  And he was a 65 minute half runner!

Piwi - in the past I've loved the Takumi Sens - my mile and 5K PRs are both in that shoe (though I've raced both distances multiple times in the Next%).  My issue is that it is challenging to get that shoe in my size.  I have three pairs hanging around, all purchased online.  2 pairs are too small and one pair is too big.    I always have to order online, trying to figure out how Japanese men's sizes translate to American Women's sizes,  from locations where I can't easily return the shoe.  I make the best guess I can at the correct size, but I've been guessing wrong, and stuck with shoes that are going on eBay at some point.

Jmac offered to pick me up some when he was in Japan a few years ago - I turned him down because I had some pairs coming in the mail.  Oops.  I would have run into the same "guessing at correct size" issue with him, though.

DW - I passed right by the Adidas store the last time I was there and thought about how you turned me down! Who knows when I'll get to Japan again with COVID, I hope in 2022. It's my favorite country in the world so I'm missing it. I'll let you know if I'm going 

Cal - my question for you: can I find your signature on the page to recall Newsom? 

JT - First, just added the book to my Kindle, thanks for the recommendation. Second, that taper looks great. I actually take the Monday off too when I'm peaking around 70 miles (will run Monday if I'm peaking around 85). So for the 70 mpw plan, I usually do something like 3x1 cruise intervals with long rest (2:30 or so) on Wednesday for a total of 7 miles as my last sharpening workout. So my week before NYC 2018 looked like this: 0 7 7* 5 0 3. I think yours looks great.

Mikkey - we haven't gotten your full take on the royals!