2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 276 times)

JMac11


Taper Czar

    If I'm not in PR shape, maybe I'll come to Boston and just live stream the race . Although I do want another crack at that course after going through the darkest moments I've ever gone through in a marathon during the last 8 miles of Boston in 2019 when I started cooking when the sun came out. I don't know how any of you got through the previous years which were either hotter or brutal cold.

     

    Mikkey - your round at Black is on me if you dress like that to the course.

     

    Andres - agreed the logistics at NYC are horrific. Boston was a breeze compared to that. I didn't even get to meet you because the corral had already opened when my bus arrived, and I was 15 minutes early to the time I was supposed to take the bus! 5:45 arrival at the library, and I didn't get to my corral until about 8:30.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

    CalBears


      For a big race logistics nothing can compare with Chicago - hands down the easiest (like a breeze) access to corrals and easy enough exit from the finish line. 8 years later I still cannot believe how they managing to do that for such a big race. Compare to Chicago, Boston is a very complicated and long lasting "experience" - of course, due to point to point nature of it, but still - 3.5 hours (or longer) from the moment of getting on a bus to the start of your wave - is a little bit of an extreme. DOn't even wanna think about NYC "boarding" experience...

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      Andres1045


         

        Andres - agreed the logistics at NYC are horrific. Boston was a breeze compared to that. I didn't even get to meet you because the corral had already opened when my bus arrived, and I was 15 minutes early to the time I was supposed to take the bus! 5:45 arrival at the library, and I didn't get to my corral until about 8:30.

        Yeah, and the ferry wasn't too much better (which I thought it was in the past). For whatever reason, it still took me about 25 min in a taxi from a hotel near the park to get to the ferry terminal (at 6am on a Sunday!!!). Then you ride the ferry for about 30 min, and then sit on a bus for an hour to travel about a mile or a little more. That part was annoying, but the part I hate is the finish where you have to walk for a mile plus to get out the park (or at least it seems like it at that moment), only to get dumped out way up the park to have to walk back to your hotel. I easily walked 3.5 miles after the race to get back to my hotel which was two blocks from the southwest corner of the park. And I'm not sure there was an easier solution to it. But maybe there was.

         

        But Cal, it is worth it. The city itself is awesome, and running through it is just spectacular. I've done Chicago, Boston, Amsterdam, Barcelona, SFO, San Diego and several other big city marathons. But NYC was by far the best course/scenery. The crowds were insane for just about all of it, too.

         

        Houston, like Chicago but not as big, also has great logistics. But both courses are just a bit boring. I found the first half of Chicago to be great, but the second half to not be nearly as great. The course in Houston isn't as nice as Chicago, but there's not any single part of it that's terrible either. And for me, the half in Houston is so much better than the full. But if all you care about is a super fast course with easy logistics, it's hard to go wrong with either of those. In Houston it's extremely easy to stay within a quarter of a mile from the start and finish, so there's zero reason to need to do a bag check. Just walk up to your corral, then exit the convention center when you're done and go back to the hotel.

        Upcoming races: Boston


        Elite Jogger

          I’ll have to say that my pre-race NYC experience was very pleasant...I was staying in the Hell’s Kitchen area and started my journey on the quirky subway (much better than London Underground)....then it was a lovely free boat trip to Staten Island. There was a slight delay getting off the coach which was a great opportunity to have a quick cat nap. The start village was fantastic and I even got a free dunkin donuts hat!  Yeah you have to walk a bit after you’ve finished...but it’s in Central Park!

           

          Maybe it’s not that big a deal to me as I always travel to the London marathon from Brighton on race morning which means getting up about 5 hours before start time.

           

          Andres - I didn’t know you ran Amsterdam!  I did it in 2009 and 2017 and loved it. 👍

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

          flavio1980


          King of pastries

            DPS - ah, that makes sense. Some very good running genetics no doubt.

             

            Mikkey - I’ll raise my bet if you run dressed like that.

             

            JT - I’ve tagged you as live streamer of that epic battle. Got the GoPro already? You’d better be practicing for the great day.

             

            It’s interesting to hear about big city marathon logistics, something we never think of. 3h30 travel would be exhausting.

             

            I’ll swim in downvotes for saying this, but Boston never did interest me. 

            Now of course I’ve never ran a time to qualify for it, there’s that, but even then.

            I’d much rather run Berlin or London if given the choice.

            Do note I won’t be running many marathons in my life time, so I gotta be very selective of which ones I run.

            PRs: 1500m 4:54 (2019) 3K 10:34 (2019) 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

            Up next: ????

            Tool to generate Strava weekly

            JMac11


            Taper Czar

              I definitely don't mind the logistics, but they are objectionably the worst of all marathons.

               

              But hey - I think standing on the Verrazano for 20 minutes waiting for the race to start is the coolest feeling in running (although that's about the only pleasant thing I've ever thought about Staten Island).

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                I’d like to run NYC just for the self guided tour. I heard there was a self supported 100 miler last year or the year before that looks appealing.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                CalBears


                   

                  Houston, like Chicago but not as big, also has great logistics. But both courses are just a bit boring. I found the first half of Chicago to be great, but the second half to not be nearly as great. The course in Houston isn't as nice as Chicago, but there's not any single part of it that's terrible either. And for me, the half in Houston is so much better than the full. But if all you care about is a super fast course with easy logistics, it's hard to go wrong with either of those. In Houston it's extremely easy to stay within a quarter of a mile from the start and finish, so there's zero reason to need to do a bag check. Just walk up to your corral, then exit the convention center when you're done and go back to the hotel.

                   

                  You can't compare Huston and Chicago - CIM is similar in size to Huston and it's just different, the access to start and exit from finish area is like your local race - very simple and doesn't take any thinking re where and why. I guess Huston is even simpler than CIM as it doesn't require transportation. But now, after I thought about it, maybe that is the reason - Boston and NYC so much worse in logistics only because they are point to point races - so much effort to deliver runners to the start?

                   

                  Did extremely small amount of cross-training yesterday - lunges, squats, push ups - I am a total wreck this morning  - took day off running.

                   

                  flavio - I am not a big fan of big races (as it involves a lot of expenses and I hate that Smile ), but there is something about them - especially Boston for me - and mostly, the social part - I met so many people in person there and there is something meeting a person whom you communicated virtually for years and now you see them in person. I remember that communication even more than races themselves. So, you will not get that opportunity in Berlin, even if (and it is) it is a great race and course (probably).

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  Andres1045


                     

                    You can't compare Huston and Chicago - CIM is similar in size to Huston and it's just different, the access to start and exit from finish area is like your local race - very simple and doesn't take any thinking re where and why. I guess Huston is even simpler than CIM as it doesn't require transportation. But now, after I thought about it, maybe that is the reason - Boston and NYC so much worse in logistics only because they are point to point races - so much effort to deliver runners to the start?

                    Maybe you don't want to compare Chicago's 45,000 field size to Houston's 28,000 (combined full and half that start and end at the same place/time), but you can't really compare Houston to CIM's 8,000 field size either.

                    Upcoming races: Boston

                    CalBears


                      Maybe you don't want to compare Chicago's 45,000 field size to Houston's 28,000 (combined full and half that start and end at the same place/time), but you can't really compare Houston to CIM's 8,000 field size either.

                       

                      Wow... I didn't know they have both, HM and FM running at the same time. That makes big difference of course (but again - no transportation problem - we will not be able to compare logistics for the marathons of the same capacity for the loop and point to point - obviously P2P's experience will be much less spectacular).  I wonder how they manage the start - do they have different start times (hopefully?) for FM and HM - otherwise that easily could be a big mess - I ran couple of races together with HM runners - not the best experience in the world. Ha-ha - I guess now I have one more reason to stick with CIM Smile

                      paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      JMac11


                      Taper Czar

                        Changing topics a bit, and I'm not sure if I've asked this before, so apologies if I have.

                         

                        Do any of you train in your old Vaporfly? I have a pair that's about 150 miles. I just bought a new pair for my full this fall. I was wondering if people "retire" their VF and train in them for things like tempo or MP runs. I just bought a new pair of Zoom Fly to do that, but I realized I probably should just return them and run my tempo/MP runs in old VF 4% shoes I have. I do like using the much heavier ZF in training because it makes race-day VF feel amazing, but that may just be mental.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                        Ian5


                          I actually didn't mind the logistics of NYC.I got the bus from the library,then slept for 90 mins,we were a bit behind so by time I'd got rid of my bag,eaten a bagel,toilet it was time to get ready.Loved starting on the top of the bridge,got lucky with the weather but everything about the day was amazing,even the walk from Central Park( inspired by my local park)

                          First Post Windermere run today,nice easy 7 miles after work in warm temps.

                          5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Changing topics a bit, and I'm not sure if I've asked this before, so apologies if I have.

                             

                            Do any of you train in your old Vaporfly? I have a pair that's about 150 miles. I just bought a new pair for my full this fall. I was wondering if people "retire" their VF and train in them for things like tempo or MP runs. I just bought a new pair of Zoom Fly to do that, but I realized I probably should just return them and run my tempo/MP runs in old VF 4% shoes I have. I do like using the much heavier ZF in training because it makes race-day VF feel amazing, but that may just be mental.

                             

                            Not generally - I personally prefer to train in low stack shoes.  As I've noted before for myself personally,  high stack cushioned shoes put a lot of stress on my ankles.

                             

                            More generally, I like to avoid the super bouncy cushioned shoes in training because I feel that they alter your gait and encourage dependencies.  I know quite a few people who have been doing all their fast running in bouncy plated shoes the past year or two (VF 4%, VF Next, Endorphin Speed, Hoka Carbon X), and I have observed some changes in their gaits to adapt to the shoes - less powerful and flatter.  I think the carbon plated shoes work best when your gait has NOT adopted to them.

                             

                            Plus, as discussed, for marathon training part of the training is your legs adapting to the pounding; you don't want to shield your legs too much.

                             

                            That being said, I absolutely will throw on a new plated shoe occasionally for a tempo workout to give it a test whirl before using in a race.  And on my last long run of this cycle, I did put on a old pair of VFs 4%s for the last 10 miles (a pair with ~250 miles) - since I haven't run a marathon in 18 months, I wanted to reassure myself that the VF 4% still felt good on tired legs at marathon effort.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                               

                              Wow... I didn't know they have both, HM and FM running at the same time. That makes big difference of course (but again - no transportation problem - we will not be able to compare logistics for the marathons of the same capacity for the loop and point to point - obviously P2P's experience will be much less spectacular).  I wonder how they manage the start - do they have different start times (hopefully?) for FM and HM - otherwise that easily could be a big mess - I ran couple of races together with HM runners - not the best experience in the world. Ha-ha - I guess now I have one more reason to stick with CIM Smile

                               

                              At Houston both races run together until about mile 7.  It's actually not that big an issue, as long as you're not hanging in a pack that it turns out is running a different race.  I found the combination of the relay and the full marathon at CIM more distracting.

                               

                              Having done CIM twice, Chicago once, and the Houston Half twice,  I think all three are not too hard, logistics-wise.  If I had to rank them, I'd say Houston was slightly easier than Chicago (simply because Chicago is so strict with the cut-off times to close the corral entrance.  CIM will always be a bit harder since you have to take a bus, though sitting in heated buses makes up for a lot.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              CalBears


                                I am yet to experience the "magic" (hype?) of Vaporflys - I have never ran in those shoes, even a training run, though I bought a pair from Mike site right before the pandemic started - so, when I wear them in 2021, they will be almost 2 years old, but still new Smile. Hesitant to buy Next% at the moment, as I even didn't run in the original ones (which I have) - unless I see a sales of some sort, I will decide on buying or not after couple of races in VFs.

                                 

                                Quick question - should I try VFs somewhere before a race, like testing MP pace - or it doesn't really matter?

                                 

                                Anybody had any experience with other carbon plated shoes - Carbon X2, Metaspeed, Endorphin Pro? How do they stack up vs Vaportflys? Or Vaporflys are the kings of the races?

                                paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile