2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 356 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    That is a lot of rain. I thoguht JMac was high enough up but I forgot he moved.

     

    JMac I was thinking about you the other day. Has your water consumption requirement changed at all with different weather? I'm about 1-2 ounces of water per mile on my casual runs these days. I don't know if it's because of the dry air, or because the smoke layer is keeping it cooler most days. I know I've been drinkin LESS (like none) water during the day so the 12ish ounces I get on a run is about all I have unless sparkling water counts.

     

    Rovatti How are you holding up with all the covid work? You're in the medical field right? I'm hearing it's miserable for nurses and they're more short staffed (like double) than ever and the protocols keep changing.

     

    The rain on the East Coast kind of makes me glad my hill is at the top of this little hump. The driveway is annoyingly steep but it drains towards the road so water would run away. Glad no one was flooded. It happened to a family member in Florida, and I once lived in a house where the 1st floor toilet overflowed and destroyed the finished basement walls. Owner wasn't happy but it wasn't our fault. Plumbing guy did something wrong.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 51

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

    JMac11


    Taper Czar

      Thanks everyone. Found out from my super this morning that the apartment next to us in the same building on the ground floor was flooded. Goes exactly to what I was saying about luck.

       

      RP - yes very dependent on temps. Assuming cloudy or very low sun (before 9 am or after 5 PM), I've found that for 150+ TDP it's almost impossible to get enough down if I'm running 18+. Otherwise, it's generally 6 ounces every 15-20 minutes. Once it gets to 130 TDP, I can get away with drinking a lot less, and I know once fall hits, I've done 22 milers with zero water.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

         

        Rovatti How are you holding up with all the covid work? You're in the medical field right? I'm hearing it's miserable for nurses and they're more short staffed (like double) than ever and the protocols keep changing.

         

        There are very few covid patients in NYC ERs (for a long time now).  I might see one or two in a typical shift, and usually not that sick.

         

        When covid surges through small-ish cities, the ICU nurses there get a LOT of stress (especially nurses that get moved to ICUs, but are not trained for it).  Also, there is a nation-wide nursing shortage, which doesn't help...

        flavio1980


        Intl. correspondent

          Cal - yeah they're cheap with the age groups like that.

          You're insane to run a marathon in training, almost sub 3 as well.

          Incredible durability.

          Shout outs to all of you, I'm very impressed by the volume of training you all can sustain throughout the year.

          Me - ok week, suffered to complete today's run, it was quite warm though.

          5 weeks to go.

          My race is early October so I reckon theres a good chance of it happening.

          There's a local marathon here in Porto November 7th, it could be a backup plan, not sure about that one happening though.

          People seem optimistic since I've seen ads for concerts in November.

           

          Weekly for period: From: 08/30/2021 To 09/05/2021

          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
          in ft
          08/31 4mi + 10x (1' ON 1' OFF) 6.90 11.10 00:51:48 07:30 04:40 138
          09/01 Morning Run 7.00 11.27 00:56:58 08:08 05:03 377
          09/02 4mi T @6:30/mi 4'/km + 4x200m strides 8.14 13.09 00:59:17 07:17 04:32 115
          09/03 Running 6am before the vax 8.01 12.88 01:02:02 07:45 04:49 200
          09/04 Morning Run 6.20 9.97 00:49:01 07:54 04:55 121
          09/05 Morning Run 16.01 25.76 02:07:01 07:56 04:56 98

          Total distance: 52.25mi

          PRs: 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

          Up next: 3 countries marathon - Oct 10th

          Tool to generate Strava weekly

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            Flavio - I wonder if the Vax could be part of why the long run was a bit tough.  Of course, could just be the heat.

             

            My week

             

            53 miles running, 4 hours pool-running, and 1000 yards swimming.
            M: 80 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
            T: 7.5 miles very easy (9:42) to the gym plus drills and 4 strides, then upper body weights/core. Then 4.5 miles very easy (9:09).
            W: 12 miles on the treadmill, including a workout of 2x10 minutes and 2x5 minutes at tempo effort (treadmill pace of 7:04) with 2 minutes jog after each 10 minute rep, and 1 minute jog between the 5 minute reps. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
            Th: 100 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
            F: 8.5 miles very easy (9:20) to gym, then upper body weights/core, followed by 3.5 miles very easy home (9:08) and then drills, two hill strides, two flat strides.
            Sa: 17 miles, including a marathon effort workout of 4, 3, 2, 1 miles at marathon effort with 1 mile float in between. Splits were 29:03 (7:16 pace), 21:42 (7:14 pace), 14:23 (7:12 pace) and 7:04. Floats ranged between 7:45 and 8:09. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
            Su: 1 hour pool-running and yoga.

             

            We had a crazy storm come through Wednesday morning, around 3 am (the same hurricane remnants that later flooded NJ/NY/CT).  No flooding in my immediate area, but we were under a tornado watch, so I decided to make use of my treadmill again. It's pretty clear that my treadmill paces are not mapping to my outside paces, but whatever, it's the effort that counts.  I am going to try to calibrate my treadmill again to see if it is off, though (it's been a few months and a belt lube, so it could be off).

             

            We got a nice break in our humidity after the storm passed through, and our dewpoints have been significantly lower.  I finished Saturday's workout on a single bottle of water, which I would not have been able to do last week.  I was really happy with the execution of Saturday's long run - it felt like I was hitting marathon effort spot on, and my heart rate was exactly where it should be (mid 160s).  OTOH, it was great weather and I was running on a perfectly flat route, so I was a bit disappointed that marathon effort didn't yield me faster paces.  But it is what it is.

             

            Rovatti and Jmac - just an FYI that I'm coming up to NYC next weekend to run Fifth Avenue Mile.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            JTReeves


              Flavio: Glad to see you're back at it. Nice 4 mi tempo and long run. Like Darkwave said, wonder if the vaccination had a lingering effect on your long run...

               

              Darkwave: Solid week and excellent long run. I can't believe it's already Fifth Avenue mile time of year! Good luck! Any target in mind for it?

               

              This week was a cutback week for me mileage-wise. It was needed, as my hip started to bother me after last weekend's big long run. It's the same problem I had 2 years ago, though much less severe. I upped the stretches and strengthening exercises that help this and it seems to be moving in the right direction.

               

              I was going to race a half marathon tomorrow, but the forecast looks terrible (TDP around 145) so I decided to bail on it. Since Saturday morning was beautiful weather (temp 52, dew point 50) I thought I'd do a half marathon time trial on the road instead. Well, that was a bit too ambitious...about a mile into it I accepted I did not have the right state of mind to get through it. So I adjusted it to a workout of 3 x 3T, with 1 mile recoveries. That went well, and I think gave nearly as good a training stimulus as racing or time-trialing a half.

               

              Weekly for period: From: 08/30/2021 To 09/05/2021

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in ft
              08/31 Morning Run 10.12 16.29 1:24:15 8:20 5:10 581
              09/01 Morning Run 8.02 12.90 1:03:48 7:57 4:57 0
              09/02 Morning Run 10.14 16.31 1:28:46 8:45 5:27 568
              09/03 Morning Run 6.19 9.96 53:19 8:37 5:21 427
              09/04 Morning Run warmup 2.38 3.82 19:27 8:10 5:05 210
              09/04 Morning Run 3 x 3T (6:10, 6:03, 5:58 avg) 12.02 19.33 1:17:58 6:29 4:02 384
              09/05 Morning Run 8.13 13.08 1:07:58 8:22 05:12 466

              Total distance: 57.00 mi

              2:52:16 (2018)

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                 

                 

                I was going to race a half marathon tomorrow, but the forecast looks terrible (TDP around 145) so I decided to bail on it. Since Saturday morning was beautiful weather (temp 52, dew point 50) I thought I'd do a half marathon time trial on the road instead. Well, that was a bit too ambitious...about a mile into it I accepted I did not have the right state of mind to get through it. So I adjusted it to a workout of 3 x 3T, with 1 mile recoveries. That went well, and I think gave nearly as good a training stimulus as racing or time-trialing a half.

                 

                Good thinking on sitting out the half, I think.

                 

                I was wondering about the 3x3 - I thought "that's a big workout."  Now I know why Smile

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                CalBears


                  flavio - great to hear you are getting back to normal. Though, almost all your runs are sub 8 pace - I would say it looks good from the outside. 7:56 pace for a long run in warm conditions - struggle would be expected after pretty quick week - plus, an easy day before LR would give you more chances for better long run.

                   

                  dw - your MP is on a slower side this time - was it warm or something unusual? I used to your 6:45 mp efforts Smile

                   

                  JTR - man... last time I had 3x3 @ mp effort of 6:20-6:25 within a long run, I ended up with 2:48 marathon. You were much quicker than this (though I had it within 90-100 miles week) - so, you are doomed now Smile

                   

                  My week was OK for the first one after a marathon:

                   

                  Mo - off

                  Tu - 3.02 @11:13 (TM) - that was tough

                  We - 6.06 @9:58 (TM) - still tough but better

                  Th - 8.10 @9:46 - yeah, still heavy heavy legs (aerobically felt great though)

                  Fr - 8.10 @7:55 - much better

                  Sa - 10.17 @7:32 - for 4 miles felt great (so many people on Saturday to pass Smile, but then faded pretty badly

                  Su - 15.17 @8:37 - just wanted to get some miles, felt heavy after Saturday's "outburst" Smile

                  ===

                  Total: 50.6 miles

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                     

                     

                    dw - your MP is on a slower side this time - was it warm or something unusual? I used to your 6:45 mp efforts Smile

                     

                    I haven't run a MP workout at 6:45 pace in about 18 months.  Because I haven't been in that sort of fitness in about 18 months... Smile

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    Marby


                      Cal: You are a beast! You blink around here and someone goes and smashes a marathon.

                       

                      Flavio: Looks like things are heading in the right direction. The earlier race is more likely to go ahead than the later?

                       

                      Darkwave: Racing a mile sounds terrifying, 5k is the shortest I’ve contemplated, good luck.

                       

                      JTR:  Nice 3x3T, nearly as good stimulus plus easier recovery for better overall.

                       

                      I dropped off the planet for a couple of weeks and trying to get caught up now.  I’ve been having a sook about my race getting postponed. New date isn’t confirmed but they are hinting at early December.  On the positive – more time to recover from the mid-July race and train. Negative – increases the chance of a hot morning.

                       

                      58 miles for the week before last
                      Tue was 8k tempo @ 6:35 plus 6x300m hills
                      Sun was 17mi easy long @ 8:12

                       

                      59 miles for the week just gone
                      Tue was 6x1k (3:58, 3:56, 3:53, 3:47, 4:00, 3:58).  The last two were into the wind.
                      Sun was 14k at marathon effort (HR 165-167 @ 6:53)

                      10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

                      CalBears


                         

                        I haven't run a MP workout at 6:45 pace in about 18 months.  Because I haven't been in that sort of fitness in about 18 months... Smile

                         

                        Though not too recent but certainly not 18 months ago - January 9th, absolutely the same workout as you did this week - 6:45-6:50 pace is there Smile

                         

                        Marby - way to go to keep up the mileage. 6:35/mi for 5 miles is really good. Sucks the race is postponed, the times we live in really suck, absolutely frustrating - what we have last 1.5 years cannot be called normal life. I think at some point we will have to just go with what we have as what we do to prevent it doesn't help noticeably, imho. I know how hard it is to keep training at a high level when this kind of cancellations happening. Hopefully it is temporarily.

                        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                        JTReeves


                          Cal: I'm amazed you ran 50 miles the week after the marathon! But I understand you want to keep the cycle going for Boston. Thanks for the encouraging words about 2:50. I have to admit, I look fairly often at your 2015 cycle leading up to the 2:48. Maybe that sounds creepy or maybe a compliment, but it helps to see the training and what got you to the goal, which is the same as my goal. What is daunting is the huge mileage you ran, I am nowhere near that, but at least this cycle I am doing higher mileage than I've ever done before. Hopefully that and some other adjustments will help make the difference this time around.

                           

                          Marby: That stinks about the postponement (again) of your race. Are there any other options sooner that you could jump into? Your training looks really solid and of sub-3 caliber.

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                          CalBears


                            Cal: I'm amazed you ran 50 miles the week after the marathon! But I understand you want to keep the cycle going for Boston. Thanks for the encouraging words about 2:50. I have to admit, I look fairly often at your 2015 cycle leading up to the 2:48. Maybe that sounds creepy or maybe a compliment, but it helps to see the training and what got you to the goal, which is the same as my goal. What is daunting is the huge mileage you ran, I am nowhere near that, but at least this cycle I am doing higher mileage than I've ever done before. Hopefully that and some other adjustments will help make the difference this time around.

                             

                             

                            Ha-ha! I actually getting back to that training cycle pretty often myself Smile That was a great cycle for me when everything just came out right and without any problem - still cannot explain how that happened - neither before nor after I had nothing like that.  Many things are daunting for me too - for example, I am complaining about little taper before the marathon I ran last week, but looking at my 2015 cycle I can see that my mileage the last three weeks of the cycle were 85, 76 and 72 Smile. And I had no complaints - great memories!

                            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                            Marby


                              Marby: That stinks about the postponement (again) of your race. Are there any other options sooner that you could jump into? Your training looks really solid and of sub-3 caliber.

                               

                              I went looking.  Portland 30/10 or Port Fairy 14/11 are smaller regional events with logistical challenges but some potential  Likely to just roll with Melbourne. Had a look at some weather stats and on average it's better than what I had in my head, hopefully they make it a 6am start.

                              10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

                              jhudak55


                                Flavio: Are you planning any tune up races prior to the marathon?

                                 

                                DW: I would think that you have a lot of improvement coming soon on the marathon pace considering you only recently saw the improved blood tests.

                                 

                                JT: Really nice workout, especially considering you switched up plans on the fly. I always find I do better in a big workout when I've been thinking about it for a couple of days leading up.

                                 

                                Cal: Belated congrats on an impressive marathon! Looks like the recovery is coming along really well too.

                                 

                                Marby: Sorry about the delay. Hopefully they'll finally let you run it in December.

                                 

                                My week:

                                70.2 miles

                                 

                                M: Off

                                T: 10 miles easy (8:43)

                                W: 13 mile MLR (8:15) on the treadmill

                                T: 6 miles easy (8:24) AM and 4 miles recovery (9:06) PM

                                F: 16 miles with a 6 mile tempo (6:34, 6:27, 6:25, 6:18, 6:21, 6:25)

                                S: 5 mi easy (8:53)

                                S: 16 mile long run with 12 at MP (MP averaged 6:47)

                                 

                                Delayed weekly as I was away again this weekend without any electronics.

                                 

                                This was a really big week for me with a lot of quality. Friday mornings weather was almost perfect for the tempo run and I was really happy with the paces and effort. I was supposed to run this tempo last week but decided to push it a week in hopes of better weather. As a result though, I had two very big workouts within a three day window. Considering this, I am really glad with how well my long run wend on Sunday. The first 9 miles of the marathon pace segment felt very under control and had to actively think about not going too fast. The last three my legs started to get heavy and the pace became harder to sustain. However there was no drop off, my heart rate averaged 170 for a couple of miles, which is higher than I'd like, but I don't think the effort was disproportionate for marathon pace.

                                 

                                This coming week will be a recovery week before the last mesocycle prior to the taper. Two months out from Indy!