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distance vs. frequency (Read 1027 times)

    Alright this is another newbie question I know but stick with me here.  So far you guys have turned my running completely around. 

     

    I want to be out 5 days a week.  My goal is to run easy on Monday and Wednesday then go a little longer but still easy on Tuesday and Thursday and a long on Saturday.  Still need to build my base so true speed work is probably not a good idea quite yet.

     

     I have realistically only ever run 3 days in a row until now.  Last night I went out for my easy Thursday run and really struggled with lower leg pain and ended up cutting the run short because I was worried about being to sore for my long run.  i managed 5.3K of the 7 I planned.  So now my weekly total will be about the same as it was the last 2 weeks when I wanted to add 10% to it. 

     

    Did I encounter more pain because I was on the feet more often?  Even though the actual distance is the same does that count as increased stress on the legs?  And should I still add the extra kilometer or 2 if I feel alright on Saturday or keep the distance about the same?

    My sport's your sport's punishment

     

    2012 goals

                  

    100 Km month         150 K month      200K month

    5K run    10K run     20K run              30K run

    sub 30 min 5K         sub 55min 10K


    Closed for repairs

      First, I think we have to distinguish between pain and discomfort.  Did it feel like an injury, or muscle soreness?  Assuming the former, forget whatever mileage goal you may have and do what it takes to take care of it.  Assuming the latter, I'd bet you are going through some adaptation pains that we all go through when we add a new stimulus (in your case added mileage and frequency).  This is one of those listen to your body situations.  If you feel good on Saturday, add the mileage if you want.  If you don't, don't.  Far more important than adding the 10% each week is doing whatever it takes to get you out there consistently for a period of months and years.  Your ability to handle more load will increase in time if you are patient. 

       

        Let's call it DISCOMFORT. Not the kind of pain that you know that you just blew something up but the kind that is screaming watch out or you're going to. 

        My sport's your sport's punishment

         

        2012 goals

                      

        100 Km month         150 K month      200K month

        5K run    10K run     20K run              30K run

        sub 30 min 5K         sub 55min 10K

          Try not to let your idea of what a proper schedule looks like take precedence over what your body is telling you and the goal of long-term consistency. I took an unplanned day off this week because my legs felt really bad, and I'm 20 years into this running thing. That's not a failure of consistency, in fact time off, in the right measure, is the very key to consistency. 

           

          All the answers to your questions are right there in your post. You just introduced a level of training that you've never done before. A general rule of thumb is to spend 6 weeks or so adapting to that level of training before trying to increase it. For this first six weeks, I would say that your ONLY goal is to get adapted to 5 days a week running. If you can accomplish that in 6 weeks, that's huge.

           

          Forget the issue of long runs for the time being. You can begin adding those in after 6 weeks. That can be the next step: running 5 days a week AND one long run. Hang onto that for 6 weeks. Then maybe it's run 5 days a week and a long run and a tempo run.  Then, maybe you start increasing the distance of a couple of your runs, etc., etc., etc.

            First, I think we have to distinguish between pain and discomfort.  Did it feel like an injury, or muscle soreness?  Assuming the former, forget whatever mileage goal you may have and do what it takes to take care of it.  Assuming the latter, I'd bet you are going through some adaptation pains that we all go through when we add a new stimulus (in your case added mileage and frequency).  This is one of those listen to your body situations.  If you feel good on Saturday, add the mileage if you want.  If you don't, don't.  Far more important than adding the 10% each week is doing whatever it takes to get you out there consistently for a period of months and years.  Your ability to handle more load will increase in time if you are patient. 

             

            +1

             

            My guess is you are experiencing adaptation pains. Scanning your log, it does not appear to me that you are doing any volume that would indicate injury...That being said, every body is different.

             

            I've been running with two new runners that just cant get past a 35 mpw barrier because they think every little pain is an impending injury. They string two back to back weeks of 35 to 40 miles, feel a little soreness, tightness...freak out and spend the next two weeks running 20 something...

             

            The best way to increase volume is like L train said. a little at a time, consistently. 

            www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building


            Prince of Fatness

              I agree with what L Train said.  Imagine that.  A few other random thoughts...

               

              The more mileage I run, the easier my easy runs need to be.  Are your easy runs really easy?

               

              When I moved to running every day I didn't worry about the mileage.  When I first filled in the off days it was a half hour easy.  That's it.  Eventually I worked up to where my easiest day was 45 minutes to an hour.  There are some in here that think that a half hour is a waste of time but when I used it as a starting point it worked for me.

               

              Frequency will eventually lead to more mileage, but don't get it stuck in your head that it has to be that way day 1.

               

              Good luck.

              Semi-retired.

                Long run may be not quite be the right description of my Saturday run.  Longer maybe longish?  I only add like 2K.

                 

                OK now I feel better.  I will stick with the mileage I have and remain committed to adding days to my schedule instead.  My overall goals are based on years not weeks so I want to get a proper start at it this time.

                My sport's your sport's punishment

                 

                2012 goals

                              

                100 Km month         150 K month      200K month

                5K run    10K run     20K run              30K run

                sub 30 min 5K         sub 55min 10K


                Closed for repairs

                  I agree with what L Train said.  Imagine that. 

                   

                  I love you too, Finn. 

                   

                  DoppleBock


                    When I started running - I ran 6 days a week almost from the start.  I ran 4 miles a day most days.  If I felt good and hand time I ran 5 or 6, if not 4.  My goals were monthly and month #2 were to run 6+ miles 4 time, 8+ miles 2 times and 10+ miles 1 time.  It was just a lose monthly goal.  If I felt good and had time (I ran before work) I would knock off one the > 4-5 mile goals ... If not I just ran 4-5 miles.

                     

                    I think it was month #5 before I started setting any resemblance to a weekly plan - Before that I just ran 6 days a week in the morning and I would go for a 30-60 minute walk at night to help recover.

                     

                    I remember the 1st time I ran 14, 16, 20 miles (On a weekend morning) - Long naps would happen right afterward and pretty shot.  It is definately a process and bad run, being tired etc are all expected as you go to new mileage areas (daily or weekly or monthly).

                     

                    It is not a day that matters as much, but it is the accumulation of the days-weeks-months of training stress that causet he fatigue and break down, but also the evolution of ability.

                    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                     

                    DoppleBock


                      My point - Run 5 days a week if that is what you want.  If you run in the morning - You might want to try a nice 30-45 minute walk at night or vice versa to help the blood flow and recovery.  Be more of an opportunist and not a slave to a schedule.

                      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                       

                        I run at night since I leave for work at 6 so I'm up at like 5:30 as it is.  I'm one of those people that needs a "to do" list or nothing gets done.  My "schedule" will be more of a suggestion for mileage for a while now though. 

                         

                         

                        Thanks guys.  I have made more progress with your help in the last 3 weeks than I did in 2 full years of running the last time.

                        My sport's your sport's punishment

                         

                        2012 goals

                                      

                        100 Km month         150 K month      200K month

                        5K run    10K run     20K run              30K run

                        sub 30 min 5K         sub 55min 10K


                        Feeling the growl again

                          Get out the door consistently, and distance will take care of itself.  When you feel good you will want to run more.  When your body starts barking at you, you know you need to take a cut-back day/week.

                           

                          Progression is not linear.  You may run 10% more one week, but get sore/niggles as a result and step back the next.  Then you step up 2 weeks straight before you feel like cutting back again.  Then you add a little more.  A few months go by and you look back at your log and say...wow...when did I start running this much?

                           

                          When I first started running "high" mileage...60mpw+...I piled it on very rapidly and within a year or so I went from rarely running over 60 to fairly regularly breaking 100 without injuries or more than occasional soreness.  But this is NOT typical and I also had over a decade of consistent running 30-50mpw under my belt when I made the jump.  I remember after my first 60 mile week...mandated by my college coach...rolling out of bed and onto the floor to stretch just so I could stand up and hobble to practice.  I guess it seemed tough at the time but there is a fine line between tough and stupid.  Better to just be smart about it.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                             hamf,

                             

                            you have received great advice from some majors on this site!    so nothing for someone like me to add except for great job on your running progression so far!