I think we're on the same page, C. My apologies for any appearance of having skimmed. Interesting choice of the word "sterile." I'm sure if we inspected everyone's heart rate monitor straps out there in the heart rate monitoring world, we'd find some interesting organisms living on some of them. Strap hygiene isn't always priority. If you get to a taper in an OT state, the taper's not going to help. Takes more time to work out of it. I've gotten to tapers tired and the taper alleviated that, and I was fresh on race day. But I did have the experience where it didn't, and that's when I tanked at mile 16. You run and you learn.
I think we're on the same page, C. My apologies for any appearance of having skimmed.
Interesting choice of the word "sterile." I'm sure if we inspected everyone's heart rate monitor straps out there in the heart rate monitoring world, we'd find some interesting organisms living on some of them. Strap hygiene isn't always priority.
If you get to a taper in an OT state, the taper's not going to help. Takes more time to work out of it. I've gotten to tapers tired and the taper alleviated that, and I was fresh on race day. But I did have the experience where it didn't, and that's when I tanked at mile 16. You run and you learn.
oh, um, I'm sure my computer keyboard is worse than my HRM strap.
well if you get to the taper in a state that's not real OT, just peaking then it should help... but I don't know about marathon yet, just shorter races.
can you tell me more about what was different in the OT state? did you just feel sluggish that didn't get fixed by 1-2 rest/easy recovery days, etc.? how did your HR behave? HR/pace relationship?
Thanks for the congrats folks. I feel like this was almost a bigger milestone for me than hitting a specific time target in a race. This means my aerobic engine is continuing to improve. I'm not a good example for low HR training. I've actually been following a couple of Hansons training plans for most of the year. First for a marathon and now for a target 10K. I think the key is volume and the key to volume is staying healthy. To do that you need to keep most of your runs easy. I haven't done any true base training in 2013 where I did nothing but easy running though. That's not to say that I couldn't have improved faster if I had. I just enjoy running faster sometimes, although I have to admit, speed interval sessions pretty much suck.
Thanks for the congrats folks. I feel like this was almost a bigger milestone for me than hitting a specific time target in a race. This means my aerobic engine is continuing to improve.
I'm not a good example for low HR training. I've actually been following a couple of Hansons training plans for most of the year. First for a marathon and now for a target 10K. I think the key is volume and the key to volume is staying healthy. To do that you need to keep most of your runs easy. I haven't done any true base training in 2013 where I did nothing but easy running though.
That's not to say that I couldn't have improved faster if I had. I just enjoy running faster sometimes, although I have to admit, speed interval sessions pretty much suck.
I'm also not a good example for strict LHR-only training. but LHR does have a place in my training. result is sub-9 paces at the same low HR where I had 14mpm paces when I started. (that HR is what the MAF formula gives me but it's actually a recovery HR for me)
I see it slightly differently from you, the key is consistency, volume does not have to be high if it's a training load that's not too low, maintainable and as a result is consistent. no down time with injury etc. not even some short down time either after training days that went too hard or something, at least not skipping days regularly (once a month or so of that case can be okay).
then of course you do need to increase volume over time as you improve. over time you do need more stimulus to keep improving. more frequent stimulus (more training days) and some runs can be made longer too.
which intervals do you think suck? classic intervals? how about LT intervals?
...btw (continuation of the post to run48), tonight I decided to stick with the 2x2500m tempo run because even though HR didn't go too high in the first 2500m, actually it stayed pretty low, didn't reach LT range, the pace was faster than I expected and my legs didn't feel like going at that intensity for 7500m. this seems to have been one of those days where HR/pace relationship is great but legs are not (yet) following it legs were actually about normal for the pace, just not for the HR. ...though then the second 2500m went great, even faster (6:40 pace woo!) and HR finally went up to normal LT range too. so whatever but I think I should post this sort of thing in the anaerobic runs thread
I did it!!!!!!!!!!! Finally ran my 6 mile MAF route under a 10:00 avg pace at or below 136 avg HR! 6.09 miles, 9:56 avg pace, 136 avg HR!
I did it!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally ran my 6 mile MAF route under a 10:00 avg pace at or below 136 avg HR!
6.09 miles, 9:56 avg pace, 136 avg HR!
You're kicking butt. Awesome progress in those temps.
TODAY:
MAF Test
1 mile
Still heading in the right direction. Recovery the rest of the week. Legs were a bit tired from that treadmill test I did on Monday, it was the incline.
--Jimmy
p.s. To C, that particular marathon (Seattle), it felt like my legs were lead weights for the last month or two. I was sluggish. My MAF regressed and plateaued. Marathon day, the same dead legs and sluggy feeling. In retrospect, it was a mistake to finish that marathon. I should have stopped at mile 16 and got a ride back in. I really enjoyed Seattle though! I want a coffee and a piroshki just thinking about it. There's a great place there that makes excellent piroshkis. And of course there are cafe's all over the place.
woa, for a month or two? what in your training was different that made you OT?
why was it a mistake to finish it though?
looked up piroshkis, they look good.
C, I looked back at my running log. One thing I did differently was 20 milers on back to back weeks, followed by a week of no 20-miler. All the marathon training I did prior to that period, I always took 1-2 weeks between long runs of that length. I used to follow the advice to take that long, because it took that long to recover from a 20-miler. I don't remember why I switched things up. It could have been that. I don't know exactly. Maybe that's what happens after 4 hard years starting from scratch, and not taking periods or total rest longer than a few weeks. The body just sort of gets out of whack. Maybe deficiencies creep in. I didn't stop after crashing at mile 16 because I thought not finishing was the weaker choice at the time. Pride. So I shuffled for ten miles on fumes. I've come to believe DNF-ing is sometimes the stronger choice. Elites DNF, why not me? If you don't have it, you can rest up and run another race a little later. I actually haven't DNF-ed yet, and don't plan to, but if I run into a similar situation, I will. Running that long in a state of glycogen depletion threw me for a loop for a good long time afterwards. It took a long time to recover. Piroshkis are a Russian food, ak.a. pirozhki. I can actually get them here in Atlanta at a farmer's market that has a Russian food section. Yum.
5:40am 6.33miles, 120bmp ave (MAF-9), 10:20. Good HR progression run, slowly building throughout.
Pushed the weekly run a little further than a more typical 5 miler in order to slowly increase the weekly base. I have also been running a block of six days back-to-back for the past three weeks to extend weekly miles and time and have only one rest day.
Lost focus yesterday and let the diet drift late at night. Time to re-focus today.
labhiker
Here's my thread whining about intervals. http://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/3aa4a0b0ee5444568d6683967fd43eb7/0
I had a great interval session this morning though, I updated that post with my results from this morning.
I agree with you on consistency, I think volume and consistency pretty much go hand in hand for me anyway.
Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)
Current PR's: Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)
Former Bad Ass
Great job, everybody.
took an SRD yesterday due to stupidly hot and humid weather. Did 10 miles this morning at 150HR and 3 miles tonight at 147. Lots of work at work but so far,
so good.
Damaris
uhh yeah a 20miler every week sounds over the top to me. unless you're an ultrarunner or something
in my marathon training I do one true long run once every 3 weeks. that's also the run that has some sort of MP sections so it's definitely not an easy run. the week after that is my cutback week (I do need it after such a run!!) and the 2nd week just has a normal long run that's up to 2 hours at a pretty easy intensity.
next long run will finally be at 30km (or perhaps 20miles if I feel like it, that's about a mile longer). I will be doing a total of two of these. then taper and then marathon time! first marathon......
don't know about the 4 years of hard work. I haven't been running for 4 yrs yet ...soon
I agree about the DNF issue.
Here's my thread whining about intervals. http://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/3aa4a0b0ee5444568d6683967fd43eb7/0 I had a great interval session this morning though, I updated that post with my results from this morning. I agree with you on consistency, I think volume and consistency pretty much go hand in hand for me anyway.
going to read that thread now.
yeah volume and consistency go together where volume is a *sustainable* and *optimal* volume so it does not need to be high at all. for very experienced runners it may mean high volume however.
I might have back to back 20-22 milers from now until Chicago....
8 miles last night at 149. It was 93F and 74DP and I ran one of my fastest runs. I am going to try to slow down tonight (maybe to 145-146HR) to be able to do a strong MP run tomorrow.
2 Hour 50 Minute run last night - HR Ave 146 (MAF Range for me 146-151)
Probably 17-18 miles
Longest run of my life thanks to MAF
mt79 - wtg. nice long run and time on your feet.
6am - 7.2mile, hr progression run, 122bmp ave., rolling terrain.
Nice long downhill for miles 6 and 7. Felt good to cruise close to MAF with a quick turnover. Fun run, no complaints.
Long run tomorrow morning
8 miles this morning with some strides at the end. Wore my GPS and HRM, but had my audio cues turned off so I was just out there running easy, not worrying about what my pace or HR was.
Was shocked to see my first 4 miles were all at MAF or less and averaging around 9:35 pace. Mile 5 is uphill a bit and then I started throwing the strides in on miles 6, 7 and 8.
Again, pretty surprised that my HR was so low those first few miles, maybe I'm making a breakthrough.
Another 8 at 148HR. PRetty humid today.