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And a few folks here doing SL - Doug, Rob. Noelle and her husband and friends are as well I think and I think Bob is doing the 15K or whatever it is.
What about me, I am in for SL as well, though not much racing as fun running.
MM#5768
"Anyone can do it in ideal conditions"- A quote from a true NE CN runner and friend.
Sorry man, I forgot about this - I should have remembered.
My salty dogs
I had figured about 30+ minutes to unheated adjusted time. Thanks I just wrote up log entry on Race or should I say experience for those who care. http://www.runningahead.com/logs/2f92a02e158145a59309f6611512a383/calendar
I had figured about 30+ minutes to unheated adjusted time. Thanks
Now do I run Sugarloaf or not?
Hell yes!!!! Expect a PR if you recover and put 1-2 more long runs in.
In 04 and 05 due to the heat at Boston I was 20 and then 10 minutes slower than I was targeting. (it wasn't as hot as 2012)
At the time -- SL gave me PRs.
With the tough part early -- you can count on negative splits unless you really fad near the end. Because you ran Boston and are still fresh - there is enough time to recover. If you had ran hard at Boston I would have said your legs would end up giving out between mile 19 and 22.
Normally there isn't enough time for a full recovery and 1 or 2 more long runs for your legs to bounce back.
Repeating what you did at Boston would be a normal goal -- this year -- it's an opportunity to kick ass.
So, my second favorite quote holds true -- "out of crisis comes opportunity" . Second to -- "anyone can do it under ideal conditions", which all you Boston 2012 runners also proved to be true and can forever relish or brag on.
Just looked at your log, Dave, and especially your splits. Wow! You ran a disciplined, steady race. Good luck at Sugarloaf if you decide to go there.
I don't know how you managed to take in so much water, although, given the 5 E-gels, I suppose you had to. I took water at about three quarters of the stops. Your idea of running with a bottle was smart. I did that for a while when I was handed a bottle by one of the spectators, then I gave it to another runner who I knew would use it. Several bottles received from the spectators were passed around among and between runners, making for some nice camaraderie.
I see that you did two things which I wanted to do and almost did: (1) stop and tell the people with hoses to soak me and (2) stop and take in some of the Wellesley support. I guess I just did not want to stop, and I'm glad I didn't because it got back on pace with all the screaming and cheering. Maybe next year. Apparently, you did not see the beer which was being handed out on the left, or did you stop for that too?
See you next Tuesday if not for a group run this weekend.
Older, slower, and trying to keep up with Tall Dave.
Now do I run Sugarloaf or not? Hell yes!!!! Expect a PR if you recover and put 1-2 more long runs in. In 04 and 05 due to the heat at Boston I was 20 and then 10 minutes slower than I was targeting. (it wasn't as hot as 2012) At the time -- SL gave me PRs. With the tough part early -- you can count on negative splits unless you really fad near the end. Because you ran Boston and are still fresh - there is enough time to recover. If you had ran hard at Boston I would have said your legs would end up giving out between mile 19 and 22. Normally there isn't enough time for a full recovery and 1 or 2 more long runs for your legs to bounce back. Repeating what you did at Boston would be a normal goal -- this year -- it's an opportunity to kick ass. So, my second favorite quote holds true -- "out of crisis comes opportunity" . Second to -- "anyone can do it under ideal conditions", which all you Boston 2012 runners also proved to be true and can forever relish or brag on.
So, Salty, please give us your suggestions on how best to recover and time our next long runs. It might make the difference between our deciding to run or not to run Sugarloaf. I speak for myself and anyone else who might be on the fence about running SL who had no plans whatsoever to do so prior to Monday.
I'm not considering SL, but this did bring a similar question to mind for me... Greg, this past fall you did NY followed closely by (I forget the name). I know it's a wildly different situation since you obviously kicked ass in NY and ran it very hard, but what did you learn from doing 2 so close together like that? What worked or didn't work? What (if anything) would you do differently?
A list of my PRs in a misguided attempt to impress people that do not care.
what ah u considerin philly too now?
and SL aint sold out? huh. seems i heard this option #3(SL)somewhere else for you people tryin to use the burden's trainin and not let it go to waste. all of you guys should do that you pace chasahs you.
In order to see the truth, sometimes you have to loose an eye.
http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Utri/
Highly unlikely, but if I did run it would just be for the "do something fun with the group" side of things, not racing it. I still fully intend to run myself into the dirt at Baystate. I was just curious in a general way.
Well the races have a good break between them since it isn't until May 20th -- that helps. You want to recover and also maintain the fitness but you need recover mentally too. Doing some key runs mixed with some other fitness activity rather than running might help.
Recovery would have stared right after the race -- certainly start with getting a massage. I would have taken an ice bath followed by a warm bath.
Geting a massage this week would be good and also the week before Sugarloaf. Using some cycling with very easy gears (high cadence) would help flush the legs out.
You all no I'm a minimalist and I believe in more rest than most. I'm never about weekly milage and more about the long runs. That said -- keeping your weekly milage low should allow for recovery -- both physical and mental. Watch some motivational movies -- St Ralph, Pre, Without Limits, or American Flyers.
Very little worry about tapering -- a 16 miler and an 18 should insure you don't loose the fitness.
April 21st --- 10 miles
April 28th -- 16 miles (maybe a 1/2 marathon race)
May 5th -- 20 miles
May 12th - 18 miles
You really have to watch the crown at Sugarloaf -- stay down the middle of the road for the first 8 miles and then too the far right later.
Mile 7-10 is up hill with the worse between 8 and 10. Down hill and rolling later. Down hills bother some -- not me.
Wish that I could be there.
Great to have your advice and perspective, Salty. I thought about the ice bath, but I chickened out. I guess I did not want the next marathon bad enough. Being on the fence about Sugarloaf kept me out of the ice cold tub. Had I planned on running SL before or right after Boston, and had I been mindful of your advice, I would have jumped in. I'm a real believer in ICE. Pro football players swear by ice baths. They could not recover without them. I think the same logic applies to marathon recovery. It does take the disciplined mindset, no doubt.
Also good to have your take on mileage. Although I've generally been a firm believer in mileage, I can't say I've tried focusing more on long runs than on cumulative weekly mileage. I think I'll give that a try. It seems entirely reasonable that long runs are more important than overall mileage. After all, a marathon is simply another long run. Any dissenters?
I'm also a believer in massage. I've generally done that before all my marathons and often several times leading up to one. I had one on Tuesday and will probably get another soon to facilitate the recovery. I'll address Cremer's inquiry about my NYC recovery next ...
Greg, this past fall you did NY followed closely by (I forget the name). I know it's a wildly different situation since you obviously kicked ass in NY and ran it very hard, but what did you learn from doing 2 so close together like that? What worked or didn't work? What (if anything) would you do differently?
I did not have a planned recovery after NYC. I would have to look at my log just to remember what I did. I did not decide to run the Three Bridges Marathon in Virginia (Dec. 4) until a week or more after NYC (Nov. 6). I did so because my friend Calvin Conner of the NYPD Running Club decided to run it, and he was planning to go sub-3, which I had hoped to do at NYC. I thought I'd tag along with him and see if I could keep up. Turns out he had to bow out due to an injury, but I'm still glad I tried. I've already written about Cal's multiple marathons which are part of his goal to go sub-3 in all 50 states. If I remember correctly, his advice for multiple marathons is not to run at all for several days and to get in one or two well-paced long runs at least 8-10 days before the next marathon. I've asked him to weigh in on the recovery question, and I'll post an update when I hear from him. Until then, good luck to everyone who ran for a quick and complete recovery!
P.S. I can't say what worked or didn't work because I have nothing to compare. I ran a 3:12, and my pace slowed significantly before the halfway point. Obviously, I went out to fast, but that does not mean that I would have finished much sooner had I run a more even pace. I simply don't think I was ready to better or even match my NYC time (3:01) that I mustered four weeks earlier. According to Cal, this should have been do-able, so it seems I did not do something right.
"Beep, Beep!"
Life's journey is not to arrive safely to the grave in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!
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