1

Advice needed: Switching from marathon to ultra (Read 95 times)

Sentinel


    I am obsessed with the idea to run (my first) 70km of a mild trail this October. In a very slow pace, not challenging anyone but me. Just to reach the finish line.

    The problem is that the race is... 3 weeks after the Berlin Marathon, where I plan to break my personal best (a dream of sub 3h is slowly vanishing, but the increase from 3h:08 to 3h:05 is more than realistic). In fact, I'm planing to use the same training effect twice. And won't be able to jump on any other race later until next autumn due to live circumstances...

    One experienced triathlete has told me that such an ultra might go well, since my peaking weakly load is 75-85 km. And some smart recovery jogs in between two races would help.

    But I'm in doubt if it is not too crazy and risky regarding the consequences? And HOW to set these recovery/transition runs properly during these 3 weeks?

     

    Remark: I am not that experienced runner, started training and racing for a fun just 3 years ago. Have done only 3 marathons so far. Before that, I was running only for warming up before workouts, or during the PFT (two decades in infantry). But I was always into active living style, especially cycling and hiking. And quite confident about my endurance. Plus, my body metrics are pretty balanced, though quite average. Yes, I plan to start training with a help of a coach, but only at the end of the year. That was sort of a goal - to achieve some results just using a sport science manuals. Until now.

     

    Thank you in advance for any opinions! Smile

      To me, it sounds like an injury risk. After I’ve raced a marathon hard, it’s usually about a month of recovery before I’m feeling normal again. Of course everyone’s different, some people might be able to handle it. But if you’re not an experienced runner, I’m guessing it’s less likely. And in any case, if you’ve never tried anything like it, you really don’t know. How do you usually feel 3 weeks after racing a marathon all-out?

      Dave

      CanadianMeg


      #RunEveryDay

        Are you travelling to Berlin for the race? You don't mention where you are from but this is another factor as well. If you are travelling from the US to Germany for the race, racing at hardest effort and flying home, the travel may affect recovery as well.

         

        I think you could run an ultra 3 weeks after a marathon, but I'd hesitate to recommend it if the marathon is going to e a full hard effort. With the ultra coming, you may be tempted to rush your marathon recovery. That's ups your risk of injury. Pick your priority: is it getting that PR or finishing the 70k. Even at a slow easy pace, the ultra is going to be hard on your feet and legs just because of the sheer time on feet.

        Half Fanatic #9292. 

        Game Admin for RA Running Game 2023.

        Sentinel


          To me, it sounds like an injury risk. After I’ve raced a marathon hard, it’s usually about a month of recovery before I’m feeling normal again. Of course everyone’s different, some people might be able to handle it. But if you’re not an experienced runner, I’m guessing it’s less likely. And in any case, if you’ve never tried anything like it, you really don’t know. How do you usually feel 3 weeks after racing a marathon all-out?

           

          I was quite alright 2,5 weeks after the marathons. But now, looking at the stats of the first recovery runs (10-14+ days after the race), it seems that the full recovery happened much later.  The HR looked uneven or higher than normal, even at slower pace. And the weekly mileage was just around half-marathon until 5th week... 
          And looking at your mileage, I believe you know way more about it all than I do. Sounds like it's not worth the risk.
          Thank you, Dave!

           

          Are you travelling to Berlin for the race? You don't mention where you are from but this is another factor as well. If you are travelling from the US to Germany for the race, racing at hardest effort and flying home, the travel may affect recovery as well.

           

          I think you could run an ultra 3 weeks after a marathon, but I'd hesitate to recommend it if the marathon is going to e a full hard effort. With the ultra coming, you may be tempted to rush your marathon recovery. That's ups your risk of injury. Pick your priority: is it getting that PR or finishing the 70k. Even at a slow easy pace, the ultra is going to be hard on your feet and legs just because of the sheer time on feet.


          Another good point!
          I'll be flying to Berlin from the UK, and then stay for another week after the race - for a moderate sightseeing. With no running at all, mostly walking and cycling. But then it would be another trip to the Baltic States, where the ultra will take place. And then back in two days.
          You are right, I should pick a priority. Especially when the (pointless) risk is so high. Not mentioning some field military trainings few weeks later... Which I can't afford to miss. 
          All in all, the priority should be health and common sense.

          Thank you for your thoughts, which convinced me not to buy the slot this year.

          ladywiggs


            xxxxxxx

            runnerclay


            Consistently Slow

              What is the time limit for the 70k?  Taper for 3 weeks after  Berlin.  Run the 70k at a pace about 60+ minutes from the race cut-off limit.  A 70k ultra will require some walking, Drop your pace from 4:35k to 6:40k or less. You can finish but it will hurt. The race predictor has you finishing at 5:20Tight lippedx. A 7-hour finish is more than doable if the goal is just to finish uninjured. The sweeper is usually my pacer.

              Run until the trail runs out.

               SCHEDULE 2016--

               The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

              unsolicited chatter

              http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

              IlaFerry


                Is there any update about that?

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                  Is there any update about that?

                   

                  probably didn't make the cutoff. Race was about 5 months ago.

                  Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                  VDOT 53.37 

                  5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22