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Advice on speedwork for upcoming 10 miler in 10 weeks (Read 1004 times)

    I can only share what has helped me at the 10K and 10Mile distances....which is to mix in more interval and tempo workouts. For example:

     

    Week 1: interval - 6 or 8 x 1/2mi at hard effort with 3/min recovery jog between

    Week 2: tempo - 6-8mi at 10mi pace

    week 3: interval - 4 or 5 x 1mi at 1/2 marathon/10mi  effort with 4 min recovery jog

     

    ...rinse and repeat.

    FWIW, I ran three 10-milers this spring and a 15k in May.  First 10 went well until a stitch hit; second went really well; third sucked for many reasons; 15k was awesome.  Random training thoughts:

     

    • aforementioned 6x800@5k-pace workout -- hard but not overwhelming.
    • aforementioned 4x1600@5k-pace (w/2:30 recovery) -- hard but not overwhelming, good mental benefit for me.
    • progression runs -- alternate weekends, the long run was shortened and the second half was rationally progressive
    • averaged 40-45mi/wk over that span

    But everyone's different.  It's a long race (I'm guessing you're targeting about 1:10-ish?), so you're probably going to be rolling at/just under LT-pace.  Raising overall endurance and the LT line would help a lot more than sharpening your speed (i.e., what Mikey said).

     

    What's the course like?  Anything in there you need to be specifically prepared for?

    “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

      I have done an 8 mile tempo run at HM pace, but that was really hard -- more like a time trial than a tempo. When I did it, I knew that I could hold that pace for a HM race. (Actually if I remember correctly it was 8m at 5:45 pace and I ended up running 5:42s for the HM.)

       

      But the purpose of such a run was really to see if my fitness was where I thought it was (this was right when I was getting back into running.) It wouldn't have been a good workout for training.

       

      The classic Jack Daniels "lactate threshold" tempo run is 20 minutes at 10 mile race pace. 

       

      If you want to practice running 10 mile or HM pace, I really like 3 x 2 miles @ HM with maybe 4 minutes jog between. You can get the 6 miles of work without having to get close to that race effort.

       

      Another good aerobic workout is 8 x 3min fartlek w/90s easy jog. You'd probably start at around 10 mile pace on these and work down to 10k pace.

       

      The best work that you can do for this type of racing is just steady, high end aerobic running -- your classic progression run. <--- this article is also good on why we should be more focused on effort than pace.

       

       I've read that article before and imo it's a glorious description of how a progression run should feel. For those that haven't read it do yourself a favor and do so.

       

      I also love the implicit concept that high end running is as much about feeling smoother and faster at high end paces as it as about the physiologic benefits of running at certain paces. 

      They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

        As always, I am absolutely appalled how so many "runners" want to do their best runs on their training rather than races.  For someone who runs 7-mile "easy" faster than his 10k race pace, I guess that's a natural thought...  Just amazes me how so many chase self-satisfaction with impressive workout and never achieving what they could achieve in the actual race, only to turn around and say; "Well, but look at the workout I've done..."

          As always, I am absolutely appalled how so many "runners" want to do their best runs on their training rather than races.  For someone who runs 7-mile "easy" faster than his 10k race pace, I guess that's a natural thought...  Just amazes me how so many chase self-satisfaction with impressive workout and never achieving what they could achieve in the actual race, only to turn around and say; "Well, but look at the workout I've done..."

           

          Hmm, yea I just looked at OPs log and noticed that after you mentioned it. If your running 7 miles at 7:40 pace and racing 10k at 7:36 pace then either your legitimately jogging the race or your "easy" runs aren't even remotely close to easy.

           

          Probably a combination of both, though it's possible your "easy" runs are beating you up so bad you can't race effectively at all.

           

          Also, for someone who has run 10 miles at like 7:40 pace...why is a 10k in 7:36 a relatively pleasing result? I'm not trying to be an ass here, but rather trying to figure out if there is some background going on we don't know about

          They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

            As always, I am absolutely appalled how so many "runners" want to do their best runs on their training rather than races.  For someone who runs 7-mile "easy" faster than his 10k race pace, I guess that's a natural thought...  Just amazes me how so many chase self-satisfaction with impressive workout and never achieving what they could achieve in the actual race, only to turn around and say; "Well, but look at the workout I've done..."

             

            I didn't want to comment on this thread since others have already posted similar to my opinions but this comment is important.  

            I see this on RW forums all the time.  People posting their impressive interval workouts as though those workouts are the end-all be-all of their training.  I guess I'm guilty of this sometimes as well (over-running workouts) but I know better than to do it on a regular basis.  Even seems people try to one-up others workouts with their workouts (I'll see those 400's you did with my ridiculously over-run ladder workout).  I don't give two hoots about how impressive your workouts are (or how fast your average weekly pace is) - show me your race time progressions and results and THEN I'll ooh and ahh over your workouts.  Give me a long string of uninterrupted training and  relatively unimpressive workouts and then good racing anytime over impressive workouts and then injury or stagnant, sub-par race times.


            day after day sameness

              Geepers...what a collection of pitch forks and torches storming forward to condemn and assign negative intent. At least to my reading. (talk about assuming negative intent, huh...hmm, point taken)

               

              The OP asked "Anyway, I am looking for advice on the type of speed workouts I can incorporate into my training over the next couple of months".

               

              Some folks (myself included) offered some possible, and potential, interval workouts as something to consider and for the OP to incorporate into his workouts in the form, effort, structure that fits his specific goals and ability.  It's up to the OP to take the recipe suggestions and incorporate them into his diet of training workouts.

               

              Nobby, I respect the heck out of you. I feel so very fortunate that all I have to do is come to some website and I can read advice and input from someone of your experience, success and caliber. You are one of the many gifts of this place. I'm not sure that all of us runners here can get to the point where you'd have us go....to the race being the end-all.

               

              The OP's looking for some suggestions. There were some offered, and some good feedback that the suggestions offered might be...let's say, less than optimal.  But the OP's question should rule the topic.

               

              My $0.02, fwiw and ymmv, and whatever....

              I've done my best to live the right way; I get up every morning and go to work each day...

                Geepers...what a collection of pitch forks and torches storming forward to condemn and assign negative intent. At least to my reading. (talk about assuming negative intent, huh...hmm, point taken)

                 

                The OP asked "Anyway, I am looking for advice on the type of speed workouts I can incorporate into my training over the next couple of months".

                 

                Some folks (myself included) offered some possible, and potential, interval workouts as something to consider and for the OP to incorporate into his workouts in the form, effort, structure that fits his specific goals and ability.  It's up to the OP to take the recipe suggestions and incorporate them into his diet of training workouts.

                 

                Nobby, I respect the heck out of you. I feel so very fortunate that all I have to do is come to some website and I can read advice and input from someone of your experience, success and caliber. You are one of the many gifts of this place. I'm not sure that all of us runners here can get to the point where you'd have us go....to the race being the end-all.

                 

                The OP's looking for some suggestions. There were some offered, and some good feedback that the suggestions offered might be...let's say, less than optimal.  But the OP's question should rule the topic.

                 

                My $0.02, fwiw and ymmv, and whatever....

                Well, perhaps I shouldn't have been a little sarcastic toward the OP...  Actually, my point was NOT to follow some of the "speed work" suggestions already given.  Think about it--for someone whose recent long run was 10-miles (roughly 90-minutes) to do an 8-mile tempo run?  Do you seriously think this can be "speed" workout or would it be merely a survival workout?  Or for someone (OP) whose usual run (mind you, not everyday) is about 5-7 miles to do 5 X 1 mile INTERVALS???  Yes, Daniels might have suggested a workout like that; but, if I remember it correctly, he probably prescribed such a workout for someone who runs 70-100 miles a week or 10-12 miles EVERYDAY.  The total volume for these guys (5 X 1 mile) is quite easily managed so they can run these repeats FAST; hence, speed training.  For someone who tend to run his "easy" run at his 10k~10 mile race pace over 5-7 miles, what sort of pace do you think he would run "5 X 1 mile"?  Do you think such a workout stay "speed" workout for him?  "Speed" means you'd run it fast or at least faster.  Far too many people don't even run their intervals faster than their 5k pace simply because the total volume of the workout far exceed their ability to maintain "fast" pace.  Do you think you can call Yasso 800 workout "speed" training (actually, it shouldn't) if one runs them in, say, 7-minute (14-minute mile pace)?  No.  It's a survival workout, strength workout at best.  "Speed" training, if you really want to work on your speed, for those people would be something more like 5 X 200m with 400m recovery jog.  Some of you may argue that it's not enough (volume) for a 10-mile race.  No, it's not.  But at the same time, if you're merely plodding a 10-mile race at 9-minute pace or thereabout, you probably shouldn't be thinking about "speed training for a 10-mile race".  I wasn't quite sure what you meant by "race being end-all"...  But if a race is not special or something to strive for, then you shouldn't be thinking about "speed training" to begin with.  Just jog for survival.  Let's face it; everybody wants to run (race) well.  Everybody wants to be fastER.  But talking about it is a taboo.  Why?  I don't understand THAT mentality...

                  Nobby, I really appreciate your advice. I feel like I am in that in-between spot of not just a casual jogger, but not quite a real runner either. I am also racing a 15K in October and started reading this thread to find some new workouts to try out. I only put in thirty to fourty miles a week max. I have read and enjoyed Daniel's book and used his 10K plan successfully (met my goal time). I read about interval workouts and mile repeats and I remember them from Daniel's plan, but when I set out to do them I seem to fizzle and get frustrated with myself. I know there are a lot of things out there that tell you your pace for each type of workout based on your race times, but it would help me to know what appropriate workouts should look like, not just the pace I should be aiming for. I've tried 5x1mile repeats, but honestly, I can't maintain for that long running any faster than a 7:15 pace, according to Daniel's my tempo pace should be close to a 7min mile. soooo, I'm guessing from what you posted above that I shouldn't try to do 5 repeats...but maybe aim for three?? I raced a 5K earlier this summer and thought I should be able to go out and run 10 x 400m intervals for one "speed workout" but could only make it to seven before i just collapsed and could barely run home. Is there a good way to tell when you are looking at a workout if it is just to ambitious for you and your current fitness?? What is the line between killing yourself and pushing yourself to get better??


                  Prince of Fatness

                    I raced a 5K earlier this summer and thought I should be able to go out and run 10 x 400m intervals for one "speed workout" but could only make it to seven before i just collapsed and could barely run home. Is there a good way to tell when you are looking at a workout if it is just to ambitious for you and your current fitness?? What is the line between killing yourself and pushing yourself to get better??

                     

                    I think that your first sentence helps to answer your two questions.  It's a workout, not a race.  If I run intervals when I am done I like to feel like I could run one or two more.

                     

                    For races from say 10K to the half marathon what worked for me was longer intervals at a slower effort with short recovery jogs.  I run my intervals by time, so for example I would run 6 x 4 minutes at 10K effort with 90 second jogs in between.  The 4 minutes for me equated to about 1 K.  I do minutes because I do not have access to a track and use a Garmin.  Time is always constant whereas the Garmin can fluctuate some on distance.  It also helped me focus on effort rather than pace.

                     

                    Here is a good explanation of intervals and their purposes.  This really helped me.  Click.

                    Semi-retired.

                      I've tried 5x1mile repeats, but honestly, I can't maintain for that long running any faster than a 7:15 pace, according to Daniel's my tempo pace should be close to a 7min mile. soooo, I'm guessing from what you posted above that I shouldn't try to do 5 repeats...but maybe aim for three?? I raced a 5K earlier this summer and thought I should be able to go out and run 10 x 400m intervals for one "speed workout" but could only make it to seven before i just collapsed and could barely run home. Is there a good way to tell when you are looking at a workout if it is just to ambitious for you and your current fitness?? What is the line between killing yourself and pushing yourself to get better??

                       

                      Hi, hope you don't mind my offering my thoughts. I'm mostly training for 5ks right now but I've been reading through this thread because I like to hear what other people do for speedwork. I took a look at your log and it looks like McMillan would put your pace at around 7:10-7:30 for mile repeats based on the 5k you have listed under your PRs, which means that your 5xmile workout was basically on point in terms of pacing (though I would definitely do 3 reps rather than 5, as you suggested). It makes sense to me that 7:00/mi would be unsustainable for this workout since it's 20 seconds faster than your 5k pace. There's no way I could run sub-5k pace for mile repeats - actually, I can't even run AT 5k pace for mile repeats. Maybe for the first one but it usually falls apart after that. Granted, this is probably my 'weakest' workout but I'd be pretty surprised if most people could handle 5 mile repeats under their best 5k pace, so don't be discouraged!

                        Nobby, I really appreciate your advice. I feel like I am in that in-between spot of not just a casual jogger, but not quite a real runner either. I am also racing a 15K in October and started reading this thread to find some new workouts to try out. I only put in thirty to fourty miles a week max. I have read and enjoyed Daniel's book and used his 10K plan successfully (met my goal time). I read about interval workouts and mile repeats and I remember them from Daniel's plan, but when I set out to do them I seem to fizzle and get frustrated with myself. I know there are a lot of things out there that tell you your pace for each type of workout based on your race times, but it would help me to know what appropriate workouts should look like, not just the pace I should be aiming for. I've tried 5x1mile repeats, but honestly, I can't maintain for that long running any faster than a 7:15 pace, according to Daniel's my tempo pace should be close to a 7min mile. soooo, I'm guessing from what you posted above that I shouldn't try to do 5 repeats...but maybe aim for three?? I raced a 5K earlier this summer and thought I should be able to go out and run 10 x 400m intervals for one "speed workout" but could only make it to seven before i just collapsed and could barely run home. Is there a good way to tell when you are looking at a workout if it is just to ambitious for you and your current fitness?? What is the line between killing yourself and pushing yourself to get better??

                        Again, I don't mean to promote our product (Running Wizard)...but I do! ;o)  What we had tried to do is to put together everything we would "advise" into this--Eric kept telling me; "Think of it as if you're coaching someone..."  One of the big thing is that it'd take "a guess work" out of it.  You wouldn't have to jump up and say; "Man, it's 10 weeks before my race!  I need to do some speed work!!  And how do I do that?"  It's ALL laid out; you don't have to "guess" when to do it, what to do and how to do it (well, sorta...).  First of all, you shouldn't just jump in and do some fast runs.  You need to prepare yourself so you can do it safely.  Has anyone asked this guy if he's done enough "base" work?  Or he just jumps in and asked, "Man, it's only 10 weeks to my race!  How do I do the speed work...?"  To simply answer his question, you can be as irresponsible as you want and tell him to do "Oh, do 10 X 1 mile as fast as you can..."  He may be Meb!!  Chances are; he's not.  

                         

                        Unfortunately, MOST people have no idea how to do interval training and have no clue WHY they are doing interval training; consequently, it becomes a race field.  My wife always laughs about it when she goes to train with a group; whenever they do Yasso 800, on the first 2 or 3, she ALWAYS gets left in the dust.  By the 5th one, a half of them drop out!  And she runs faster then almost all of them 5k up!

                         

                        One of the MOST important things to remember is that the most important thing about interval training is now how you perform that particular workout but WHAT IT WOULD DO TO YOU IN THE NEXT WORKOUT OR NEXT WEEK OR A FEW WEEKS DOWN THE ROAD.  I don't even care if you run your intervals even slower than your marathon pace because it'll get you in a good stead to run fastER next week.  First off, most people make a mistake of "gotta run my intervals 20-seconds slower than my 'current' 5k race pace...!"  TOTALLY WRONG!!!  You actually said it in your last sentence!!  What is the fine line between killing yourself and...  Well, wouldn't you KNOW if you're killing yourself?  Well, don't do it.  You've got to be able to do them and do them comfortably.  Any workout that leaves you "stuffed" is NOT a good workout.  You should never EVER do intervals "One more..." or "A little faster..."  You should ALWAYS stop interval workout one step before that.  If you schedule to do 5 X 1 mile at certain pace and after the 3rd one you feel "stuffed", stop.  You've done enough.  Maybe next week, or 2 weeks from now, you SHOULD be able to do 4 of them.  YOU'RE PREPARING YOURSELF TO GET STRONGER.  You don't have to be where you want to be 3 weeks from now TODAY!!!  For that, Lydiard always used the effort system; your first interval workout should be at 1/4 effort.  Then 1/2 effort...then 3/4 effort.  We formularized it.  For you, as a 22:41-5k runner, your 1/4 effort mile repeat should be7:44, or for 400m 1:49 pace.  A few weeks later, your 1/2 effort would be 7:33 for a mile and 1:43 for 400m.  If you keep it within yourself, such progress would come naturally without forcing yourself.  Too slow?  Why not?  You're not trying to break the world record for your interval workout.  You try it and see how it feels on the first day.  You've come off the base work and maybe do some hill training to do your homework; you still feel a bit sluggish.  And, besides, you need some volume of work.  If you do them too fast, you end up finishing the workout prematurely.  Same thing with recovery interval--forget cutting it down or doing it short.  I'd suggest the same distance (unless you're doing a mile repeat) for recovery jog.  Forget 1-minute or 2-minute recovery.  Do 800m repeat; jog back 800m!!  Why?  So you can do them faster!!!!!  Why make things more difficult?  

                         

                        By the way, I believe "speed training" (meaning, try to get up on your toes and run fast...regardless of how short) is necessary for EVERYBODY.  Slower runners, beginners...  Particularly beginners.  I don't care if you run 34-minutes for 5k; you need to work on that.  I don't care if you race well or not; you don't work on it, your chance of getting injured would be tripled.  You'll never learn the correct mechanics to run smoothly.  Besides ill-fitted shoes, this is probably the single biggest contributing factor for so many "runners" today getting injured.  They got danced around with silly phrases like "No Need For Speed" or view "running fast" or "speed" as sin and skip this vital homework.  Learn to run fast (in a correct way) means learn to run safe.

                          Nobby, it's possible to promote your product without pretending that the majority of runners don't know what they are doing. There was one poster who posted some workouts that were on the hard side, but his intent was reasonable. Everyone else on the thread posted reasonable workouts. Thank god that Milk Truck posted something a little out there so that we could have some training talk on this board for a change.

                           

                          If you are thinking like a coach, you would drop the sarcasm and the outrage. Also, I disagree; I don't think it's possible to take the "guess work" out of coaching. The "guess work" is the creative side of the sport. Training is not a science.

                           

                          Finally, you rip everyone for giving advice on speedwork when that's what the OP asked for. I checked the OP's log, and I didn't see anything there. I didn't make any assumptions that the OP knew -- or didn't know -- what he was talking about. Mikey basically answered the question as fully as you can on a message board, but since some of us like to geek out about training we chimed in with a bit more specificity. All of the "taboo" that you talk about, how people don't want to talk about getting faster -- well maybe it has something to do with the tone that you are taking right now towards people who are just looking to learn something.


                          Fat butt on couch

                             1) Unfortunately, MOST people have no idea how to do interval training and have no clue WHY they are doing interval training; consequently, it becomes a race field.  

                             

                             2) First off, most people make a mistake of "gotta run my intervals 20-seconds slower than my 'current' 5k race pace...!"  TOTALLY WRONG!!!  

                             

                            3) For that, Lydiard always used the effort system; your first interval workout should be at 1/4 effort.  Then 1/2 effort...then 3/4 effort.  We formularized it.  For you, as a 22:41-5k runner, your 1/4 effort mile repeat should be7:44, or for 400m 1:49 pace.  A few weeks later, your 1/2 effort would be 7:33 for a mile and 1:43 for 400m.  

                             

                              4) Same thing with recovery interval--forget cutting it down or doing it short.  I'd suggest the same distance (unless you're doing a mile repeat) for recovery jog.  Forget 1-minute or 2-minute recovery.  Do 800m repeat; jog back 800m!!  Why?  So you can do them faster!!!!!  Why make things more difficult?  

                             

                            5) By the way, I believe "speed training" (meaning, try to get up on your toes and run fast...regardless of how short) is necessary for EVERYBODY.  Slower runners, beginners...  Particularly beginners.  I don't care if you run 34-minutes for 5k; you need to work on that.  I don't care if you race well or not; you don't work on it, your chance of getting injured would be tripled.  You'll never learn the correct mechanics to run smoothly.

                             

                            1)  If people don't know how or why they are doing interval training, is it really safe to assume that they can accurately gauge effort the way you want them to?  That's exactly WHY it becomes a race field.  It helps to have a starting point so they don't start off WAY too hard with them...

                             

                            2)  OK, so it's wrong to use formulas to determine interval pace...BUT...

                             

                            3)  ....now you suggest a formula?  Huh?  As Jeff said, you can't "take the guesswork" out of it.  That is why people have coaches.  There is no formula; everyone is different.  Formulas only provide a starting point to figure things out.  Any coach that says their formula will tell a given runner exactly what they should be doing is not a good coach, IMHO.  I agree with the "start at a lower effort and work your way up" completely.

                             

                            4)  Adjusting interval paces and recovery times can change a singular workout (say, 8X400) into very different things.  Depending on your goal, you may work towards different things by adjusting the pace and recovery in the workout.  The conditioning and capability of the runner may also affect the need for recovery.  The goal of an interval isn't always to just "run them faster", if that was the case we would always take long recoveries.  In your 800m example why not take 1200m recovery so you can run even faster?

                             

                            5)  Intervals do not equal form training.  Intervals can actually cause people to cement bad form as you typically accumulate fatigue and this often leads to the use of bad form.  The type of "speed training" which best helps people with form issues is drills/strides/accelerations, where you practice running fast and smooth with good form over distances short enough that fatigue doesn't muck it up.  Perhaps you are using those terms interchangeably and that is why I am confused?  Putting your last two posts together it appears you are using a very particular definition of speed training in this thread, but are assuming that is the only one.  It is an ill-defined term; IMHO one can't leap to conclusions on what is meant when the term "speed training" is thrown out there as it can basically mean any sort of faster-than-tempo, intermittent training depending upon context.  (This is part of the reason for the tread MrFinn linked, to help people think of the multitude of things "speed training"/intervals can be used for)  MTA:  In context of the original question, 2.5 months to train for a 10-miler, I would argue that your idea of "speed training" is not really what was being asked.  This is the perfect time for high-end aerobic training...shorter recovery intervals.

                             

                            It appears the thread was started with an honest question with the intent to learn.  I don't think belittlement is a good way to approach people trying to educate themselves and opening themselves up by asking questions....they are less likely to do so again.  New runners may ask a lot of questions and may get things wrong a lot, but they don't want to be looked at as stupid when they are approaching it with the best of intentions.  Likewise, a wide variety of differing advice has been offered.  Some may be misguided or wrong, but it may also differ because different runners have acheived success with different approaches, or bring a different background and/or training philosophy to the table.  I think we all benefit from the variety in the discussion.  I would hope people don't need to feel beaten down for offering their perspective, even if it is out of the norm.

                             

                            Jeff and I have 5K PRs in the same neighborhood.  We used vastly different means to get there.  If either of us had followed the other's formula we would have done much worse as we are very different runners who respond to different training stimuli.  So to a generic request we may give very different answers....neither is wrong, honestly we don't know who is right until the runner themselves figure out which applies best to them.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             


                            Fat butt on couch

                               I read about interval workouts and mile repeats and I remember them from Daniel's plan, but when I set out to do them I seem to fizzle and get frustrated with myself. I know there are a lot of things out there that tell you your pace for each type of workout based on your race times, but it would help me to know what appropriate workouts should look like, not just the pace I should be aiming for. I've tried 5x1mile repeats, but honestly, I can't maintain for that long running any faster than a 7:15 pace, according to Daniel's my tempo pace should be close to a 7min mile. soooo, I'm guessing from what you posted above that I shouldn't try to do 5 repeats...but maybe aim for three??

                               

                              For perspective, the only time I did 5Xmile workouts (3min recovery) was when I was running 80-100 mpw.  That is way ambitious for your current level.  Start with 3, slower, and work up.   It is safe to start with 2 miles' worth of intervals, and add as you feel appropriate.  5 miles of intervals, at any pace under 10K pace, is quite a bit of work.

                               

                              You're not going to go out there and nail this exactly the first time.  For ever set of intervals you do, you should strive to run them so your first one is slowest and your last one fastest.  This helps you from running them too hard.  If you blow up partway through, it is clear you were running too fast to begin with!

                               

                              Go out next time and slow down.  Make sure you make it through the set comfortably.  Good....now you have a baseline.  If that felt good, the next time you do that same workout you can start a bit faster and try to run a tad faster on each interval than you did the prior workout attempt.  It won't take long before you figure out where you should be.

                               

                              Check out the link MrFinn posted and see if that gives you any ideas.

                              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                               

                                Sometimes Nobby misunderstands the point of what he's reading. Sometimes he's impatient or frustrated with people's lack of knowledge or experience. Sometimes he gets mad (okay, always) when he thinks someone is trying to short-cut the training process. And sometimes I just flat out disagree with what he says.

                                 

                                But...I'm glad Nobby frequents RA.  Overall, he makes RA a better place for training advice.

                                 

                                (Of course in this thread he was a bit of a bear.)

                                 

                                ((No offense to bears.))

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