Hansons vs. Pfitzinger (Read 2637 times)

    Well done Bhearn.  My log stalking/personal experience corresponds with Spaniel's about more miles at marathon pace generally equals more consistent performance.  


    One other thing to throw in.  You could maybe argue that Pfitz has you doing multiple medium-long runs during many weeks.  Although it is more prevalent in the 70/85 plan, even the 55/70 plan has a few weeks with 14-15 on Wednesday, 10-13 on Friday, then the long run on the weekend.  Not sure how Hansons compares, but I personally like the multiple mid week long runs, even if I am too lazy to actually do them most of the time.  

      Yes, I like them too; the midweek medium-long run is a hallmark of the Pfitzinger plans. I like to toe the line in a marathon not feeling remotely intimidated by the distance, and Pfitzinger certainly prepares you well in that regard.


      However, at this point, I've run 65 marathons and 17 ultras. I'm not intimidated by the distance. My legs might forget how to run long after a Hansons plan, but my mind wont.



          That was a fantastic analysis bhearn. Thanks!


          I just finished the book as well. I followed their plan last fall for Twin Cities after doing Pfitz a couple of times. I had a great training cycle and am going to use it again for Boston in the spring with a few tweaks. Mainly adding some miles per one of their higher mileage plans from the website.


          Again, great post.


          Hey Fuzzy -- how long you been out here???

          And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx




            I have done that workout and it was not as bad as the

            5-4-3-2-1 miles @ T with 5-4-3-2 minutes rest between sets ... This is knocked me off Daniels Gold Elite plan - I was using 130 MPW as 100%


            The key is to run the correct marathon pace -


            THe problem with the 5-4-3-2-1 T paced workout is it is meant for people running <=5 minute miles and would be better done by mortals like us at 25-20-15-10-5 minutes @ T.


            Speed 1st - I am a get your fat ass running 1st kind of guy.  I will put on weight between cycles and have to run slow and easy (Base building) for 6-10 weeks just to start doing speed.  Maybe because of my reality I am a "Get mileage to a reasonable amount before you add anything but light speed" kind of guy.


            I am hoping to be lighter this Jan 1st when I start my next cycle.  1/1/2012 I was 242 and currently I am 205. 



            2 miles E +

            8 miles M +

            1 mile T +

            4 miles M +

            1 mile T +

            2 miles M +

            2 miles E


            There isn't a remote possibility I could do that kind of workout.  None.  But, it is a balanced approach working on all aspects throughout the duration of the plan.


            Here's a good article from Greg McMillan about the "speed first" approach.




            Disclaimer:  I'm a "speed first" advocate. 

            7/20/17 #247 Comeback #19 ... 10/8 - Glacial Trail 50M



            Will Crew for Beer

              That was a good comparison though. FWIW, I'd put the race miles from Pfitz in the LT bucket.

              Wouldn't that depend somewhat on the length of the race and how fast you are? I think Pfitz does actually say races can replace LT workouts, but I was just curious. Seems like a 5K would be above what Pfitz defines as LT, although not quite how he defines a VO2max workout. If you're fast a 10K could be above LT as well.

              Rule number one of a gunfight, bring a gun. Rule number two of a gunfight, bring friends with guns.

                Wouldn't that depend somewhat on the length of the race and how fast you are?


                Yes, but unless you're a sub 13 minute 5k'er all of the races are going to be slower than VO2max and closer to LT, especially since you're not tapering for them.

                Runners run.


                  Thanks, Bhearn, for the reviews.  I tend to look a bit more favorably than you at the Hansons book, mostly since some of the physiology explanation-- the stuff about cumulative fatigue and the training effects of easy runs-- made more sense to me than some other explanations I had read.  I do think both books have a lot to offer and both have their place in the well-read marathon runner's library. 


                  Re the speed first/ endurance first discussion:  I think it's important not to underestimate the psychology side of things.  I did a modified Pfitzinger 18/55 for my first marathon and though I felt very well prepared physically (and ended up running what I felt was a good race, even splits), after all the 800m repeats at the end of the training cycle I felt like I was more ready to run a good 5K than to run a good marathon.

                  Up next: Front Runners New York LGBT Pride 5-mile  06/28 |  NYRR Team Championships: Women (5M) 08/02

                  Goal race: NYCRUNS Haunted Island 10K 10/25

                  Doc, my tooth hurts

                    so who is going to try this plan for a cycle? 

                      I won't try either...I like racing too much and I know too much about how I respond to training to know that neither is perfect for me.


                      But IF I run a marathon this year my training will look more like Hansons' than Pfitz.

                      Runners run.

                        I have the Hanson book and plan to use it for training for the Edinburgh Marathon (end of May). So I've not actually started following the plan yet. I quite like doing my weekly 5k races on Saturday mornings when I can, so I'll have to make some adjustments to accommodate that. 

                          I can read it on my ipad though, so I'll be transcribing the 18/70 to excel anyway (unless someone already has it done and would be kind enough to PM me!!!)


                          Just load the plan into your training log on RA. That's what i did. Works great. 


                            Hey Fuzzy -- how long you been out here???


                            I started using the log a couple years ago but drifted away. I hung out some in a few forums at RWOL and when those kind of imploded over thanksgiving I found my way here. Think I'll stay....I kind of like it. Plus it's good to hear from another friendly face I know. Seems to be a few from our neck of the woods around.




                              Just load the plan into your training log on RA. That's what i did. Works great. 


                              How did you load the plan into your log on RA -- manually?

                              And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx



                                How did you load the plan into your log on RA -- manually?

                                 Yeah, should have been clearer. I just manually entered the plan.