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Long Run = 1/3 of Weekly Mileage, then..? (Read 137 times)

Mikkey


Mmmm Bop

    When I used to help out as a pacer at a local running group I would be amazed that the weekend long run was the big effort for most folk at MP and maybe they’d do a couple of easy runs during the week...and most of them would actually get close to their 3:30 time goal.

     

    For me personally a 2.5 hour cap is meaningless as it depends on the intensity...I could run an easy 18 miler and not feel a thing next day....or I could have MP/HMP sections in that time frame and i would need more time to recover.

     

    The cookie cutter plans should only be used as a guideline to help you get started on the road to running. Learn how your body reacts each cycle as you can be your own best coach.

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

    wcrunner2


    Are we there, yet?

       Otherwise, I think 3 hours is a good limit. Nobody should be doing 20 mile long runs at 12:00 pace.

       

      And at 75 just what pace should I be running my long runs?

       2024 Races:

            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

            05/11 - D3 50K
            05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

       

       

           

      Half Crazy K 2.0


         

        I view the 2.5 hour "limit" as someone running sub 3 hours. Otherwise, I think 3 hours is a good limit. Nobody should be doing 20 mile long runs at 12:00 pace.

         

        I chose not to, but I think there are reasons to do this. First, it's a reality check. If the 20 is really a struggle or would translate to a full that is not within the race time limits, probably time to rethink things. Two, fueling for 5+ hours is different from sub 3. Three, assuming road marathons here and not trails.

        Mikkey


        Mmmm Bop

           

          And at 75 just what pace should I be running my long runs?

           

          You do Ultras now? I’ve never done one, but I think that’s a different scenario…run/walk approach I guess wouldn’t really matter how long it takes.

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

          JMac11


          RIP Milkman

             

            I chose not to, but I think there are reasons to do this. First, it's a reality check. If the 20 is really a struggle or would translate to a full that is not within the race time limits, probably time to rethink things. Two, fueling for 5+ hours is different from sub 3. Three, assuming road marathons here and not trails.

             

            I actually don't think that's true. There's research out there that the guys running sub-2:10 actually need more fuel than anyone else as they are running very close to their lactate threshold.

             

            Second - part of the limit on long runs is injury risk. Sure, running a 20 miler may help give you confidence, but injury risk exponentially goes up as your distance or speed increases. If you are a 5 hour marathoner who has zero risk of injury, then go for it (I also envy you). But those types of long runs also jeopardize the rest of your week and ability to put up high mileage as mikeymike talked about. I see so many people who run 20 mile long runs and then are wiped the rest of the week because it took them 4+ hours. You should be able to run 20 miles and be able to run a normal run at worst 48 hours later. If you can't, it means the long run is too difficult for you given your mileage. Shorten the long run and increase your other miles.

             

            More succinctly, your success in the marathon is not going to be dependent on whether you got a 20 miler in or not for folks running 5 hours.

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

             

            Half Crazy K 2.0


              Maybe fueling is the wrong term. A 5 or 6 hour race that starts at 8am messes up your normal meal schedule. If you don't do well skipping meals due to low blood sugar or any other reason, you want to know this before the race & have some idea of what you are going to do to keep it from happening.

                 

                Sure, but why 2.5 hours? Is there something physiological that happens at that point?

                 

                I’m no expert, but based on the experiences of everyone I know, I’d think a 3 hour long run is reasonable for most recreational marathoners.

                 

                I do believe Daniel's states that the long run benefits seem to fizzle out after 2.5 hours....ie. vs any amount of time...5 hours...3hrs...etc...

                 

                he also states that a runner could run 2 miles a day....and complete a 10k(6.2miles) no problem....so why can't a marathoner do similar....

                as well ultra people long training runs of 30miles...etc.... for 100 milers etc...

                 

                also I think his pros don't run for longer than 2.5 hours.... so why would you have average mortals running 20 mile training runs in say 4 hours etc...

                 

                makes a lot of sense to me.

                 

                 

                I think  one point he's trying to make is that mortals etc... don't need to run 20+ miles to complete a marathon.... but so many have this mental barrier etc... about running 20 etc... or 4 hours...

                 

                he's also said he'd rather you get hurt running your Marathon race than training for your marathon...

                 

                I also saw where someone told him but you need a long run with a 2 in it....ie. 20 miles.... then he came up with the idea....that you could also run 12 mile long run....haha.

                could also run a 20k long run.....or 26.2km long run...

                300m- 37 sec.

                   

                  I do believe Daniel's states that the long run benefits seem to fizzle out after 2.5 hours....ie. vs any amount of time...5 hours...3hrs...etc...

                   

                  he also states that a runner could run 2 miles a day....and complete a 10k(6.2miles) no problem....so why can't a marathoner do similar....

                  as well ultra people long training runs of 30miles...etc.... for 100 milers etc...

                   

                  also I think his pros don't run for longer than 2.5 hours.... so why would you have average mortals running 20 mile training runs in say 4 hours etc...

                   

                  makes a lot of sense to me.

                   

                   

                  I think  one point he's trying to make is that mortals etc... don't need to run 20+ miles to complete a marathon.... but so many have this mental barrier etc... about running 20 etc... or 4 hours...

                   

                  he's also said he'd rather you get hurt running your Marathon race than training for your marathon...

                   

                  I also saw where someone told him but you need a long run with a 2 in it....ie. 20 miles.... then he came up with the idea....that you could also run 12 mile long run....haha.

                  could also run a 20k long run.....or 26.2km long run...

                   

                  I am not exactly sure all the points you're trying to make here...too many ellipses I think. On one hand you're talking about the pros, and on the other hand you're talking about people wanting to "complete a marathon." Most people on these forums are somewhere in between. A significant portion of folks here train for marathons with something like 50-75 miles per week, and run it in the 3:00-4:00 range. They are going to run a 20-miler in about 3 hours give or take, maybe 2-3 of them in a cycle, and it's not going to cause them to get injured or inhibit their training the rest of the week. I would guess Jack Daniels would not take issue with that, of course I can't say for sure, but guys like Pete Pfitzinger and Greg McMillan certainly build their plans with that in mind.

                  Dave


                  SMART Approach

                    If you go into marathon training fit and with a base and a nice multi month history of consistent miles of 25 - 30 miles a week or more and give yourself plenty of time you can get through without training being a crazy struggle. I am on the 3 hour long run train but my last 2 first time marathoners really wanted to do 20 milers in training. One was running near 60 miles a week and other 45-50. They were feeling so good through training so I agreed. Both got thru 20 without diffuculty not needing much recovery time at all. It surprised them. They both ask me, "How come everyone struggles with these and complains about hurting and aches". My reply is they are training incorrectly or went into training non fit. The big take.....DO NOT use marathon training to get in shape.

                    Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                    Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                    Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                    www.smartapproachtraining.com

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