20 miler in marathon training -- what's your take? (Read 1327 times)

I believe that 2 or 3 long runs should last as long time wise as it will take you to run the full marathon. I believe this to be very much needed for the first marathon and not really so important for the following marathons. For the first marathon, you should be prepared to run for a long time. I don't recall how long my longest run was before my first marathon, but I think it might have been greater than 5 hours. I was a sub-5 hour finisher my first try and I was mentally prepared for that situation. Now, after you have done the distance once, maybe the time issue is not so important, but that first time is a bitch. Now, after you try one marathon to finish, we can worry about how to fix tired legs late in a race. Oh, and this assumes that the person in question is like I was for my first marathon, not out to win, not even very good, just there to get it done and see if it can be done by someone like myself at the time. Not how far out should the last of these longest runs be? That one totally depends on how long you have been running and how much recovery time is needed. If you never stopped running after HS/college the answer will be much different than someone like me who took nearly a decade off from running competitively. The answer will also differ if you are a seasonal or single goal runner bound to hit a goal and then take weeks or even months off at a time. Meh. Did that answer anything or just add to the confusion?

No, I think that made a lot of sense, actually--especially the part about running for as long as I'd expect the race to take. If I were to do a 22 miler as my longest training run it probably would take at least 4-4.5 hours. I'm sort of guessing based upon my history and PRs in the HM that I'd be looking at ~4.5 hours for the whole shebang.

zz, you could complete a marathon right now without hurting yourself too badly. The rest of this is just convincing yourself you can.

Oh, I know I could...I just want it to be less miserable with more and better training, KWIM? Yeah, ultimately I want simply to finish this first one, but my secondary goal is to finish strong, not gutting it out and in misery for any longer than is reasonable.

5:26:39 Wow. There we go, my longest long run ever. Time wise anyway. How far? 20.2 miles, on 9/17/2006. Yeah, I'm crazy.

Running for 5.5 hours is not normal. Crazy? Confirmed.

Interesting stuff. I know tapering more than 7-10 days does nothing for me. I'm very curious about the rest of their ideas. I think I'll try this in the fall, with a few minor modifications. Thanks, Bell.

"Think of tapering as relative to the type and amount of training you have done. If you have pushed the limits of volume and duration of your runs, you will need a longer tapering phase. If you are putting in 100-mile training weeks, your legs might be thrashed after several weeks of it. Therefore, tapering for 3-5 weeks might be necessary for you to race a marathon well. On the other hand, if you choose to be more conservative and run 70-80 miles per week, your legs might be considerably more fresh. In such a case, a long taper will not be necessary at all. Your muscle fiber types also determines how long you must taper. People who are naturally endurance oriented and not speedy will need short tapering phases. I have observed that slow twitch runners tend to lose aerobic endurance quickly upon cessation of mileage and suffer greatly in races when they taper too soon and too much. At the other end of the continuum, runners who are speedy tend to retain aerobic endurance more easily, so they can afford to taper longer. Most runners are somewhere in between these two extremes. However, no matter what you do, remember, if you are not tired, sore, and beat up, you don’t need to taper much. Tinman" Long tapers don't work for me either. I've never been tested but am almost sure I have more slow twitch fibers than fast. I suspect that there are many runners who frequent these forums who overdo tapering--not just for the marathon, but for all race distances.

So, now we're trying for normal? Longest run to date?...little over 32 1/2 hours, more than 20 miles. there was snow. it was pretty. the hallucinations were nice

Normal is highly overrated, IMO.

A 3 week taper won't cause you to lose much in the way of fitness as long as you do it properly. If you cut your mileage in half each week then that won't help, but if you run 90% the first week, 80% the second week, and then let yourself get some good rest the last week (with a good tempo workout each week including one 6-7 days before the marathon) then you should be fine.

So, now we're trying for normal? Longest run to date?...little over 32 1/2 hours, more than 20 miles.

The opposite of normal.

A 3 week taper won't cause you to lose much in the way of fitness as long as you do it properly. If you cut your mileage in half each week then that won't help, but if you run 90% the first week, 80% the second week, and then let yourself get some good rest the last week (with a good tempo workout each week including one 6-7 days before the marathon) then you should be fine.

I agree with this. Would you say that a 16miler, given proper traininng, 8 days before the race done at goal MP would be beneficial as the final temp workout you mention? Or is it too much?