The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 423 times)

flavio1980


Intl. correspondent

    Fred - Yeah, I’m aware that there are diminishing benefits from 2h30 of a run. I imagine that is seen from an aerobic development perspective.

    There is one thing that is extremely beneficial to me but not to most: Muscular endurance development

    I know there’s an increased risk of injury, but there are many plans out there with very long runs, Pfitz for instance caps some plans at 39km.

    I agree summer 5ks need to be for fun heh also why I think summer is the best time to train and race mid distance like 800 or 1500/mile.

     

    Hash - I wonder why you need to have the warm up as a separate run from the main block. 

    What I do most of the time is configure the warm up to end at a “lap press” on the Garmin workout, so I can start the workout at a safe location (not in the middle of a street crossing for instance).

     

    Piwi - I also run my 200s like that. What impressed me was that you were getting faster towards the end as if you were just warming up to it.

    By contrast, I tire out very quickly after the first few ones and tend to do the last few ones slower.

     

    Watson/Hashi - Added your race to the front page.

     

    me - I had an excellent workout earlier today. 10x 1' fast w/ 2' rest. I've averaged 3:16/km which is excellent. Not sure how this translates to race paces as there were long rests.

    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

    Up next: 10K Family race

    Tool to generate Strava weekly

      Flavio great job on that workout. When I do the 200s I'm a little unsure how hard to run them where I can complete the workout.  So the last couple I tend to be a bit more aggressive.

      If I were to do a 400m workout at 80 secs per 400, how many should I do and how much recovery as a 1500m workout?

      50+ PBs -  

      5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

      10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

      Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

      Somewhere in between is about right "      

       

      flavio1980


      Intl. correspondent

        Piwi - I'd say start with 10x400 with 2 minute rests.

        Then work your way down to 90s rests and 60s rests.

        The rest can be passive, just stand in pace or walk, the idea is that your heart rate goes down during the rest so you're forced to use some anaerobic energy every time..

        If you don't rest enough the heart rate remains high and it becomes a 5k workout.

        Alternatively you could go to your local track wirh your kiddo and blast a 1500 time trial, and have him pace you, he should be able to keep pace for at least 800m.

        The nice thing about the 1500 is that you are already recovered by the next day 

        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

        Up next: 10K Family race

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        Fredford66


        Running Musician

          Watson - Best of luck in your race.

           

          Flavio - There really aren't a lot of opportunities for me to race short distances like 800 or 1500, and those aren't my area of interest in any case.  I use summer to train for fall half marathons, though I completely understand it's a good time of year for people who like those shorter distances.

           

          The sun was up around 5:00 this morning and so was I (without an alarm) so I went out for a 5 mile run in lovely weather (60F/16C) and still got home in time for breakfast with my son before he headed off to school.

          5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

          Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
          zebano


            FYI for the freedom lovers 3:16/KM is 5:15 per mile so Flavio was moving!

             

            PiwiKiwi: 10x400 at mile on min rest is absolute classic... that said I think it's a bit too much and only build up to 8x400 on min rest. Some other ideas can be found in Joe Rubio's Middle Distance Guide  he gives this progression for in season work (assuming you've been training year round for this and your base is amazing)

             

            • 4 x 2 x 400 at 1500 pace. 100 jog btw each, 5 min btw sets
            • 6-8 x 400 at 1500 pace w/ equal time standing recovery
            • 4-5 x 600 at 1500 pace w/ 2x time recovery
            • 3-4 x 800 at 1500 pace w/ 2x time recovery

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

              OK thanks sounds hard-core.

              I was listening to a podcast yesterday featuring Nick Willis and his training was interesting.

              He tended to not do workouts that left him hating life, but shorter sprint intervals.

              I guess for middle distance you can get away with that.

              50+ PBs -  

              5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

              10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

              Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

              Somewhere in between is about right "      

               

              Fredford66


              Running Musician

                OK thanks sounds hard-core.

                I was listening to a podcast yesterday featuring Nick Willis and his training was interesting.

                He tended to not do workouts that left him hating life, but shorter sprint intervals.

                I guess for middle distance you can get away with that.

                 

                Reminds me of an interview I saw with Usain Bolt, who explained that he didn't compete in the 400m because that distance was too painful.

                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
                watsonc123


                  Flavio - race plans

                   

                  Cancel:

                  WUU2k July 16

                   

                  Add:

                  Wellington X-Country Champs

                  July 17

                  Aim TBC

                  PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                   

                  40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                  Marky_Mark_17


                     

                    The sun was up around 5:00 this morning and so was I (without an alarm) so I went out for a 5 mile run in lovely weather (60F/16C) and still got home in time for breakfast with my son before he headed off to school.

                     

                    This is one thing I really love about working from home.  I can get a run in, and have breakfast with the family before my daughter goes to school.

                     

                    Flavio - few races to add for me also while we're at it:

                    Aug 20 - Auckland 10km road champs

                    Sep 4 - NZ 10km road champs

                    Oct 1 - National Road Relays

                    Oct 16 - NZ Half Marathon Champs (Cambridge HM)

                    Nov 6 - Nelson Half Marathon

                     

                    There's another random event I was contemplating in mid-Sept but unsure about that yet (Steve - it's Race Tekapo...).

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                    Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    Fredford66


                    Running Musician

                       

                      This is one thing I really love about working from home.  I can get a run in, and have breakfast with the family before my daughter goes to school.

                       

                       

                       

                      Yes!

                      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                      Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23

                        Yeah it's great to get it done early Mark. I'm home by 7am to wake my 16 yr old up. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to have breakfast with me however 

                         

                        Watson/Hash looked like some good x country results on strava, no doubt hampered by weather conditions!

                         

                        We drove over the Kaima ranges to walk the Blue Springs track and encountered terrible weather on the way. So bad I had to slow the car to about 20 mph as visibility was about 3m.

                         

                        I've been walking alot lately ( not logging on strava ) as my wife has a fitbit and likes a minimum of 15000 steps per day with 20000 in the weekends.

                        While I normally detest walking it's actually really good for recovery from running as well as extra fitness I'm finding.

                        50+ PBs -  

                        5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                        10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                          Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 12/06/2022

                          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                          in m
                          06/06 Recovery 4.98 8.02 00:44:14 08:53 05:31 4
                          06/06 Afternoon Run 4.98 8.02 00:38:55 07:49 04:51 2
                          07/06 Morning Run with 6k tempo 7.47 12.01 00:55:16 07:24 04:36 5
                          08/06 Morning Run 4.98 8.01 00:43:43 08:47 05:27 24
                          09/06 Morning Run with 10x200 7.01 11.28 00:55:36 07:56 04:56 5
                          10/06 Morning Run 5.00 8.05 00:45:10 09:02 05:37 6
                          11/06 General aerobic 9.95 16.01 01:16:21 07:40 04:46 10
                          12/06 Morning Run with Phil 14.92 24.01 02:03:07 08:15 05:08 54

                          Total distance: 95.41km

                          50+ PBs -  

                          5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                          10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                          Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                          Somewhere in between is about right "      

                           

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Piwi - very nice work.

                             

                            Me - bit lighter after a big week last week.  Mostly pretty good, work was a bit full-on and had a late night Wed so the Thurs workout was hard going.  Good session on a wet track Saturday and once again I had to battle the wind for most of the week so probably that'll be good for strength or something.  Looks like another week of westerlies ahead this week so suck it up, buttercup.

                             

                            Bit of excitement here last night also as a house probably around 500m from us on the other side of a valley caught fire.  Looked like maybe something went awry with their fireplace as it was mostly around the chimney area.  5 fire engines in the end but luckily the family got out safely and the damage is mostly confined to one corner of the house.

                             

                            Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 12/06/2022

                            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                            in m
                            06/06 That run where Coastal Walkway in the mist might be even better than Coastal Walkway in the sun 4.37 7.02 00:31:52 07:18 04:32 48
                            07/06 That run where the fog was disappointingly patchy 8.74 14.06 00:59:05 06:46 04:12 35
                            08/06 That run where it was again, faster 8.84 14.22 00:56:30 06:23 03:58 45
                            09/06 That run where it was again, even faster 10.60 17.05 01:06:04 06:14 03:52 49
                            11/06 That run with a splash down Puddle Lane 8.73 14.04 00:53:33 06:08 03:49 81
                            12/06 That run where the roof, the roof, the roof was on fire 12.60 20.27 01:28:50 07:03 04:23 206

                            Total distance: 86.67km

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                            Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            JamesD


                            JamesD

                               

                              We drove over the Kaima ranges to walk the Blue Springs track and encountered terrible weather on the way. So bad I had to slow the car to about 20 mph as visibility was about 3m.

                               

                              I've been walking alot lately ( not logging on strava ) as my wife has a fitbit and likes a minimum of 15000 steps per day with 20000 in the weekends.

                              While I normally detest walking it's actually really good for recovery from running as well as extra fitness I'm finding.

                               

                              piwi - Why do you give your car speed in mph and everything else (I think) in metric units?  Is that what your car’s dashboard shows?  Glad the walking helps.  Is the fitness benefit strength & injury prevention or aerobic?

                               

                              I had hoped to make it to our Dallas trip that starts in about 10 days before taking much down time, but my hamstrings had other ideas.  I’m feeling occasional soreness when I’m not running, which is new.  I usually have a little soreness when I start, then feel ok for a few miles, then start feeling sore again.  It was that kind of week, as for the first time I was given a 60+ discount at a movie, and without even asking for it.  (I’m not quite there yet, and usually am told I look younger.)  The week wasn’t all bad, as my swimming is getting a little better and the movie - the new Top Gun - was pretty good for what it was.

                               

                              Flavio, I may as well ask you to put my Omaha race from last month on the board after all, as I may not be running any others for a while.  It was the Invest in Yourself 5K, May 1, goal 21:00, result 20:04.  Thanks.

                               

                              Sun - 7 miles very slow TM (81 mins) + 0:40 walk breaks/6:00

                              Mon - 29 minutes swimming

                              Tues - 5 miles in park @ 8:26

                              Weds - 5.2 very slow TM (60 minutes) + 0:40 walk breaks/6:00

                              Thurs - 25 minutes swimming

                              Fri - off

                              Sat -  5 in park @ 8:30 

                               

                              Total - 22.2 miles, YTD Average: 37.3 mpw



                              Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                              '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                James - Nice 5km, that's a really good result with all your niggles.

                                 

                                Mark - Nice "light" week.  Glad to hear it wasn't as bad as it could have been for the neighbours, what a nightmare.

                                 

                                piwi - another great week, you're primed for a big race when you enter one!

                                 

                                zebano - Ha!  I've even complained about the weather on race days for cancelled races before.

                                 

                                me - Good solid week with a good hill session.  I learned my lesson from previous hilly runs and kept my climbs about the same pace but made sure I kept it easy on the downhills and I've pulled up nicely, not too sore.

                                 

                                Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 12/06/2022

                                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                                in m
                                06/06 Warm up 0.33 0.54 00:03:10 09:36 05:52 0
                                06/06 Easy pace 8.78 14.13 01:11:49 08:11 05:05 19
                                06/06 Strides 0.75 1.21 00:05:43 07:37 04:43 0
                                08/06 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:03 09:15 05:45 0
                                08/06 15km incl. 3 x (7 mins @ 4:25/km, 3 mins easy) 9.35 15.05 01:11:54 07:41 04:47 11
                                09/06 Recovery 5.54 8.92 00:48:01 08:40 05:23 11
                                10/06 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:10 09:03 05:39 0
                                10/06 Easy pace 6.26 10.07 00:50:54 08:08 05:03 10
                                10/06 Strides 0.75 1.20 00:05:50 07:47 04:52 0
                                11/06 Warm up 0.39 0.62 00:03:36 09:14 05:48 10
                                11/06 Summit Road Climbing 16.27 26.17 02:17:21 08:27 05:15 548
                                12/06 Recovery 5.05 8.12 00:45:12 08:57 05:34 10

                                Total distance: 87.12km

                                Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                                Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024