2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 448 times)

JMac11


Milkman

    Keen - nothing wrong with your strategy at all. Breaking 3 is one of those sacred numbers that sometimes it's better to be a bit more conservative. I think you'll know by mile 10-13 whether the pace is too easy or not.

     

    Me - I just got back from my sports guy (keen - he is the head sports doctor for the US Olympic water polo team, so pretty cool but also he does actually work with serious athletes). He was overall very optimistic given it was just a reaction and it's not in the femoral head, plus the fact that these 4 weeks of rest seemed to knock out the pain I was feeling.

     

    He did say there was also an impingement in my hip on the MRI, so it seems like my right leg is just a total mess with that impingement, a stress reaction, and a labral tear. He did say though what we suspected: pretty much every endurance athlete has a labral tear, so it's not a big deal unless it's causing one type of pain, which I don't have.

     

    He wants to do physical therapy and some manual/needle work with him twice a week through the end of the year. He also set me up with a physical therapist who he said will "push you very hard" which is exactly what I need.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/21)

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      I checked the weather for Carmichael, which is right at the half point. It's going to be 44 at 7 am and 50 at 10 am. If that isn't A or A+ marathon weather, I don't know what is. This is like 2 years ago when I ran it where people were complaining about how hot it was and it was in the low 50s. How perfect of a course/weather do you guys want??? 43 degrees the entire race, cloudy, 0 mph winds is the only acceptable weather?

       

      And cal - if you are emotionally tired, I'll just drop this quote right here from someone I respect. Remember some of us put in a huge training block and can't even run the race:

       

       

      A light breeze out of the West would be nice. Maybe 2-3 mph so the fans still want to come out, and no one over heats. 0 MPH has the problem of keeping the funky smell of runners lingering for hours. Oh and this would be the SECOND marathon with perfect weather you're missing out on. Boston 2020 was just about the same.

       

      Keen Perhaps I'll ride your coat tails through most of CIM. a 2:58 would be a PR for me. *checks running calculator*  6:47/mi would be possible if I go for it. With the massive taper I've had it SHOULD be possible. Training at 4,400 ft then racing at sea level should provide SOME benefit, right?

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      VDOT 54.9

      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07


      Elite Jogger

        Luckily my reaction is not in the neck, which is a good sign. JT - thanks for talking to your friend, appreciate it. Maybe I'm too optimistic given I had a tibial stress fracture in high school and it was a nightmare. But I have to be. Look at mikkey - didn't run for months and may break 3. It's amazing how the body retains endurance.

         

         

         

        Behave yourself, if I went out at sub 3 pace I probably wouldn’t even BQ and end up in the medical tent!  I was chatting to a running friend recently who was injured for a similar length of time as me and he was able to get back to his old easy pace/LRs pretty quick, but it took a lot longer to get the speed back which I can relate to as I’ve only managed a few tempo intervals (with longer recovery) in the last month. I’m going to take a leaf out of Cals book and just see how I feel on the day...I’ll probably start out at 7:10 pace and see how things pan out. Valencia weather for the weekend is looking fantastic and sunny and should be reasonable temps for the race 11-15c. I just checked my log and will most likely hit 1000 miles for the year at the finish line. 

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        CalBears


           

          And cal - if you are emotionally tired, I'll just drop this quote right here from someone I respect. Remember some of us put in a huge training block and can't even run the race: 

           

          Quote from CalBears on 9/28/2021 at 10:16 AM:

           

          Your week looks like a really good training week. The only thing I would add is a little bit more of optimism and positivity... Sleep, wake up, kiss your family, drink coffee, run, enjoy the sun and peace - in no particular order. Life is freaking short and fragile

           

          Omg... You made my day JMac 

           

          I know that guy too - I think he lives in a bubble  And at that time he only ran 1 marathon, so, kind of understand his optimism. Btw, can't understand why would you respect his opinion, I, personally, do not - very often. Only sometimes Smile

           

          Seriously though - physically I feel ok, no problem, just emotionally wiped out. Plus, trip to Disneyland kind of wiped me out too - too much family drama  Just do not feel regular pre-race pop. But will go and run anyway, and then, after CIM, will try to have good 8-10-12 no-race training, so, I could decide on racing pace based on my actual training Smile.

           

          Keen - the only extra recovery technique I know - a lot of vodka or cognac . Congrats on awesome 5K time! You are definitely way faster than just sub 3. But, in all honesty, I would do the same as you decided - I would just go slightly faster than sub 3 until mile 16-17 and I am pretty sure you will feel great at that point and go faster from there. For me, personally, breaking sub 3, was a really great moment, after which I was set free. You do not seem to be too prone to injuries, so, your best times are all ahead.

           

          And JMac is right - the weather looks really good - if we are lucky and have cloud cover all the way to Sacramento, we would be having close to ideal conditions.

           

          RP - just remember - sub 3 is still not easy, so, you still have to work for it.

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

             RP - just remember - sub 3 is still not easy, so, you still have to work for it.

            This is the part I'm most afraid of.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 54.9

            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

            CalBears


              Wrong thread Smile

              paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

              Marby


                RP: ER for croup… yep, done that.

                 

                Keen: Fantastic 5k. Good chance that a conservative start allows you to choose your pain instead of having it thrust upon you; and a big negative split.

                 

                Cal: It might just be that you need every single minute of the 3 weeks between Revel and CIM for the pop to arrive.

                 

                CIM: I go one week later. Show me the way.

                 

                My week:  Down a bit in volume and intensity. The Sunday run was an opportunity to test fuel (SIS Beta Fuel & Gel) and race shoe (Alphafly) for the first time.  Sunday evening I started coughing, finally succumbed to the bug that’s gone through the rest of the family.  Mon & Tues have been off, doubt I’ll be running Wed am at this stage. Better this week than next.

                 

                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                in ft
                11/22 Morning Run 6.23 10.03 00:53:26 08:35 05:20 223
                11/23 7x2min Fartlek 7.10 11.43 00:51:58 07:19 04:33 151
                11/24 Morning Run 6.11 9.83 00:56:21 09:13 05:44 141
                11/25 5x1600 8.28 13.32 01:00:36 07:19 04:33 223
                11/26 Morning Run 4.45 7.16 00:36:11 08:08 05:03 174
                11/28 Warm up 10.01 16.11 01:20:13 08:01 04:59 341
                11/28 3x2k@MP 6.23 10.02 00:42:42 06:51 04:16 259

                Total distance: 48.41mi

                Half 1:26:41 (2016), Marathon 2:59:83 (2021)

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  OKC Turkey Tracks Race Report


                  Prior to this year I have never done a turkey trot (aside from run/walking one with DW maybe 5 years ago) or even a 5k with anything resembling a taper. Turkey trots always interfered with in one way or another by a race - either it's 1 week post marathon or it just didn't fit with training for another marathon, and I've always ran 5ks while training through for anoter race, so I was looking forward to this for many weeks after seeing it during my first week of taper.


                  There are two main turkey trots in the OKC area - one on the north side of town (the one I did with DW), and the other in the midtown area. I had done some asking around and heard the midtown one was supposedly faster, so that's what I signed up for.


                  Race day dawned as cold (mid/upper 30s) and windy (17-10mph) as forecasted. I managed to secure a nice parking spot just a block from the start/finish and went on a random 4+ mile warmup after picking up my bib. Side note: There are ALWAYS hidden port-o-johns around a race.
                  While taking off my warmups and switching shoes the wind completely died, so I opted to ditch my gloves and the arm warmers I had on under my jacket before heading to the start.


                  I chatted with a few people in the start corral (like the local jr high xc/track coach who was gotten obnoxiously fast in the last year), did a few strides with other runners, lamented the wind picking back up, then lined up behind all the people who looked faster than me.


                  The gun went off and immediately there was a lead pack of 6-8, then another 6-8 of us kinda strung out in a line behind. The race opens up going a bit uphill and into a wind coming from about our 11 o'clock, so straight drafting behind someone didn't work too well.
                  I set off going by feel and thought I had this about right when I heard one of a group of three runners from a local women's college XC team say "we're going 6:something-5 per mile, we just need to hold this". Hearing this I thought "If I'm going 6:anything per mile I need to hurry up a bit" and sped up a little to try catching up to a guy a little in front of me. I catch up to him and recognize the guy wearing a beanie with a pompom on top who is immediately in front of him as well. I had finished ahead of Beanie Guy during my HM this spring, he finished ahead of me during a later 15k, and I finished before him in my 10k a few weeks ago. Hmm. A rival has appeared.


                  KM 1: 3:48


                  Just prior to hitting the first km marker 5 people passed me - the three women XC runners, one guy who was WAY overdressed (pants, LS shirt, sweatshirt, buff, beanie, gloves... what's he doing up here?) and a random guy on a bike. I see the lap time and think "great. 10k pace off 5k effort. Just what I wanted", but console myself with the fact that we've all been running uphill and against the wind, plus the road was starting a bit of a downhill as well.


                  The 6 other runners and I formed a loose pack, but overdressed guy dropped back quickly. Random bike guy was holding his phone off to the side, clearly trying to video the girls running next to me. Since they didn't seem to care at all I assumed they had suckered a friend in to getting some in-race footage.


                  Just before KM 2 the XC runners started to fall back a bit, leaving myself, Beanie Rival, and Unknown Guy by ourselves.

                   

                  KM 2: 3:28


                  At this point all I know is that the downhill helped make up some time and that KM was MUCH faster, but I don't even try doing the math to see where I'm at pace-wise. The three of us make a right-hand turn, blow past the water station, then make another right-hand turn and start heading up a bit of a hill.


                  The crossing tailwind helped some going up this hill, but by memory it was MUCH steeper than the elevation chart shows. Clearly my watch barometer was malfunctioning during this one, specific part of the course.


                  Unknown Guy fell back while Beanie Rival opened up a bit of a lead on me, but we could now see a few runners who had fallen from the lead pack ahead of us, so we were clearly moving up.

                   

                  KM 3: 3:57


                  Great. Back to slow again. "You were going uphill, it's not that bad". Exactly nothing exciting happened during this next kilometer. Beanie Rival and I made up a bit more ground on the guys ahead of us and he kept his few seconds lead.


                  KM 4: 3:36


                  Better. Beanie Rival and I are a good deal closer to the guys ahead of us - there's maybe 5 of us strung across 50 meters or so. We're getting close to making the last left-hand turn on to the final straight and every single one of the runners I can see ahead of me moves off the road onto the sidewalk ahead of the turn, while I stick to the road. That slight course-cut didn't change anything with regards to finish order, but likely did put a second or so between myself and Beanie rival.


                  The last 800m of the course is slightly downhill and now aided by the crossing tailwind. I'm trucking along as fast as I can make my legs move but no matter what I do it seems that the gap Beanie Rival opened up halfway through the race stays about the same.
                  I see the race clock at 18:10 and think "hey, I'm not coming in all that far from my original goal!", push a bit harder, and stop my watch after crossing the mats.

                   

                  KM 5: 3:25
                  Total time: 18:14 (?)


                  The question mark is there because I don't have a real chip time - and I wonder how many people actually do. When I first checked the results my time was 17:45 and I finished several places higher than I actually did. I checked again after a cooldown and my time was over 40 minutes. I asked the timer guy about this and he admitted there were some issues but that I did finish in 17:45.
                  As much as I would have loved that, it simply didn't happen and I pointed out that my watch time was nearly 30 seconds slower. He tried attributing this to me starting my watch when the gun went off and taking that extra time to get to the start line, but I had to respectfully disavow him of this notion. In the end he set my "official" time as my watch time. In talking to several people I knew after the race, their times were similarly affected.


                  In any case, I was thrilled with the PR (original goal was 18:10, but given the wind and course hills I revised this down to 18:20) and a little annoyed at the guy who told me this was the faster of the two local courses (I heartily disagree). It was certainly good to finally get to run a turkey trot and see what I could do with a bit of a taper before a race. On to CIM!!

                  5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                  CIM - 12/4

                  JMac11


                  Milkman

                    Keen - as much as I enjoyed your race report, if you report your marathon pace in terms of KM, you are forever banished back to the Kiwi thread.

                     

                    Cal - I hope the CIM magic gets you, I have a feeling it will.

                     

                    Marby - all the focus on CIM this week, but you'll get the attention next week (and maybe mikkey, but he's sandbagging)

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/21)

                    SteveChCh


                    Hot Weather Complainer

                      Dropping in to wish all CIM racers the best, will be eagerly following.  And Marby in Melbourne too, one of my favourite races that I hope to do again sometime soon.  Hope you get a cool morning, December is potentially horrific even with a 6am start.

                       

                      Also, good luck Mikkey in Spain.  Should be a good starting point to get back to your best.

                       

                      JMac - I think in a race with km in the title, reporting in kms is legit.  Of course, his marathon race report will require both.  Glad to hear your injury isn't as bad as it could be, hope you come right soon.

                      Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                      Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                      Race plan:  Wellington Half Marathon June 19, 2022 (likely marathon tempo session). Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        JMac - I have no idea why, but kilometers have been marked that last couple races I've done. There seems to be an odd mix of imperial and metric measurements in races in the OKC area.

                        5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                        CIM - 12/4

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          Keen - as much as I enjoyed your race report, if you report your marathon pace in terms of KM, you are forever banished back to the Kiwi thread.

                           

                           

                          You're not the thread dictator so you have no authority here. I think 42 different KM breakdowns would be awesome. Because 42.

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 54.9

                          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                          CalBears


                             You're not the thread dictator so you have no authority here. I think 42 different KM breakdowns would be awesome. Because 42.

                             

                            Rebellion? RP - you will be banished too if I see too much love to the wrong measurements... 

                            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                            Marby


                              Keen: Great to see a race report in proper units.  What I loved most was your description of 5 runners strung out over 50 meters.  You can't blame that on course markings. You guys have potential after all.  I'm so pleased I won't even point out the odd spelling of metres.

                              Half 1:26:41 (2016), Marathon 2:59:83 (2021)

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                 

                                Rebellion? RP - you will be banished too if I see too much love to the wrong measurements... 

                                 

                                I’ll avoid using miles as much as possible. Occasionally I’ll have to for the stubborn folk who refuse to acknowledge the superior unit of measurement.

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 54.9

                                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07