The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 367 times)

watsonc123


    Welcome Caitlin, Lance and Ben.  Plus welcome back to the 2021 people.

    PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

     

    40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

    watsonc123


      Chris, M44, Greater Wellington, New Zealand.

       

      I've been running since 2021, with my first race a half in 1:45. I was very consistent training wise through to 2016, and had got my PR down to 1:26.  It's stayed there since.

       

      In 2021, I raced one half in 2021 in 1:30:08. Once 14km road race, a few cross country, plus an ultra which due to terrible weather ended up being changed to a 21km trail race (which hopefully 2022 I get to race the 43km distance).

       

      A combination of motivation, life getting in the way, and injuries have meant my mileage has been mediocre the last few years.

       

      I had two significant injuries in 2020, hamstring at the start of the year which kept me out a long time (and still plays up), and then Oct 2020 a running crash causing a broken elbow (healed quickly) and shoulder joint soft tissue (healed slowly) which meant very little running until this April. In 2021 I also had a few small injuries which kept me out a few weeks each time.

       

      Unlike Steve, lockdowns didn't effect my races much over the last few years. I was either injured, the race went ahead, or it got postponed a month or two and I raced it then. There were a few minor races cancelled (e.g. park runs, small club races) but they didn't matter too much to me.

       

      Annual distance

      km / miles
      2015 4100 / 2500 (rough number)
      2016 3000 / 1860 (rough number)
      2017 2860 / 1777
      2018 2237 / 1390
      2019 2683 / 1667
      2020 1512 / 940
      2021 2280 / 1417

       

      So 2022, needs no injuries (I'll strength train twice per week).

       

      Upcoming races (all aims TBD):
      - Trentham Park Run 5km, 5 Feb
      - Wellington Round the Bays Half, 20 Feb
      - Xterra Wellington West Wind Long Course 18km with 900m elevation
      - WUU2k Ultra 43km with 2000m elevation, 16 July

      PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

       

      40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

        Let me be the first to accuse someone of sandbagging. RP! Sub 18:20 (and I'm not being aggressive at all) or nothing. Pace for 19:30 is what you should do for at least 15k, not 5k.

        5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        Brookhaven Run Classic - 9/17

        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

        Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

        CIM - 12/4

        arunnerd


        Roads Scholar

          Let me be the first to accuse someone of sandbagging. RP! Sub 18:20 (and I'm not being aggressive at all) or nothing. Pace for 19:30 is what you should do for at least 15k, not 5k.

           

          Agreed.

           

          A 19:30 goal is slow for a sub-3 marathoner.  I get that you want a goal with meaning -- "a new PR".  In your case though that old PR is just not commensurate with your current fitness.  That should be like your C goal if the weather sucks and you lose a shoe.  How about a sub-6 pace (18:40) as a B goal with meaning?

           

          Keens suggestion of 18:20 as your A goal may not have numerical meaning, but I am pretty sure he just double-dog-dared you.  So...

          I strive towards laconic wit, my wife says I'm halfway there.

            

          arunnerd.blogspot.com

          cc4life07


          Wind is not my friend.

            CC4life I was literally thinking 'oh great. two CC's' as I read your comment. I'm in a group chat with two "RPs" so the second one to join is "RP2". Maybe you can be CC4

             

            I'll take CC4 but that just feels like such a demotion.  Couldn't even be CC2 or CC3.  Ha.

             

            Kiwi - I'd love to run in the mornings but I gotta be out of the house by 6:30am and help make bottles and such for daycare and I just can't get motivated to wake up.  I've gotten in the groove of these night runs and occasionally may run in the afternoon if I'm able to schedule it!

             

            Running Problem - My first running watch was a Forerunner 205.  It wasn't about being a serious runner....it was about having the wrist strength to be able to carry around that mini computer for a couple miles.

            "Current" PRs

            5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:19:28 (4/22)

            Next Race: A 5K of some sort (Goal: Sub 17:30)

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Let me be the first to accuse someone of sandbagging. RP! Sub 18:20 (and I'm not being aggressive at all) or nothing. Pace for 19:30 is what you should do for at least 15k, not 5k.

               

              The key word is SHOULD. I SHOULD be capable of breaking 19 HOWEVER, I've done nothing, other than run two fast half marathons back to back, to actually prove I can break 18. I don't think it is just mental too. I actually think I'm built for comfort not speed. I currently have a 19:34 5k PR plus I'm not traveling to sea level to run a 5k. If I happen to be at sea level when one happens great, BUT I'm not driving 2+ hours to run for 19 minutes. 6:00/mi pace for 3 miles is fucking RIDICULOUS FAST. I gotta have some dry ground to work with for that kind of "nonsense" at 4,400 ft. The competition level is there on race day (meaning I'll have people I could probably run with) and I just don't know if I'm actually capable of it.

               

              Nerd I mean, the 5k PR was 7 months ago, almost to the day, so it isn't exactly "old news" in my book. It is actually what I used to base my marathon training off of, and the 10k PR gave me the umph/push/desire to actually strive for the sub 3 again. The rest, well that was just everything coming together on race day.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 54.9

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

              flavio1980


              Intl. correspondent

                I side with RP here.

                Even for him there should be some post marathon loss of fitness, he peaked on race day, he likely is no longer at that peak.

                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                Up next: Corrida do Dragão 10k

                Tool to generate Strava weekly

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                  I side with RP here.

                  Even for him there should be some post marathon loss of fitness, he peaked on race day, he likely is no longer at that peak.

                   

                  Well, yeah that too. I just don’t know if the fitness of marathons directly correlates to 5k. Don’t you have a 1:22 half yet still no sun 3 marathon? I’m the opposite. Heck, my 10k PR was 4 months after my 5k pr and at a 4,000 ft higher elevation, and they’re close to the same pace. This is why I’ll try to race the 5k in March and see what it’s at then. 

                  Garmin says I’ve lost fitness VO2 Max down to 57 from a peak of 60. It’s probably because I haven’t done anything more than aerobic running. Snow/ice/holidays/Oreos have not allowed it.

                  Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                  VDOT 54.9

                  5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                  JamesD


                  JamesD

                    James -- I would recommend screen names, or just "nerd" would work fine for me.

                     

                    BTW, I have run in Columbus many times while visiting my SIL stationed there. Along the river trail is beautiful but those "Beware of Alligators" signs gave me pause.  They made me think twice about unscheduled pit stops.

                     

                    I raced the 2013 Red Nose Half Marathon where I saw a special forces soldier run the entire half in a gas mask .  I took a DNF in the 2011 Soldier Marathon.  I got far enough into the race to fist-bump the commanding general and then shortly after that I pulled a muscle.  I was in great shape but it wasn't to be.  I never did put everything together for a good marathon.  There are just so damn many things that can go wrong.

                     

                     

                    Is your SIL still stationed here?  Let me know if you're coming again and I can take you to some places with fewer alligator-related signs.  I usually run at Lakebottom Park, but Britt David Park also is nice if you like lots of little hills.  The downtown riverwalk section near where I live doesn't have any of those signs, and I assume they wouldn't have put the downtown whitewater course too near the alligators.  I moved back here in 2013 and so didn't run either of the races you did, but I ran the Soldier half in 2014-17 and 2019.  2019 was its last year, as the organizers, who were a bunch of retired folks when they started it in 2010, were getting old.  Red Nose is still going on, but I've never run it since I hate (and run poorly in) cold weather.  It's the only half in town now.

                    Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                    2022 Goals: Get/stay healthy; run consistently; Half<1:30; PR or 80% age-grade at one distance

                    cc4life07


                    Wind is not my friend.

                      Another think any of those running calculators (Macmillan) actually match the performances from distance to distance? I know they’re just a guide but curious if anyone matches really well. 

                      I’ve got a 5k in about a week I’m looking to hopefully run well at and get a decent idea of training paces for the next 3 months for my half.

                      "Current" PRs

                      5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:19:28 (4/22)

                      Next Race: A 5K of some sort (Goal: Sub 17:30)

                      flavio1980


                      Intl. correspondent

                        Another think any of those running calculators (Macmillan) actually match the performances from distance to distance? I know they’re just a guide but curious if anyone matches really well. 

                        I’ve got a 5k in about a week I’m looking to hopefully run well at and get a decent idea of training paces for the next 3 months for my half.

                         

                        I'd say ignore those calculators.

                        Do you have a recent workout? That would give you a much closer idea.

                        Something like a 6x800 or 5x1k

                        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                        Up next: Corrida do Dragão 10k

                        Tool to generate Strava weekly

                        flavio1980


                        Intl. correspondent

                          But in summary if by end of the second mile you're seeing Jesus riding a pink unicorn then you're probably doing it right 😇🦄

                          PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                          Up next: Corrida do Dragão 10k

                          Tool to generate Strava weekly

                          arunnerd


                          Roads Scholar

                            Another think any of those running calculators (Macmillan) actually match the performances from distance to distance? I know they’re just a guide but curious if anyone matches really well. 

                            I’ve got a 5k in about a week I’m looking to hopefully run well at and get a decent idea of training paces for the next 3 months for my half.

                            I'm going to disagree with flavio here.  I think he may have misunderstood your question.  His answer seems to better address how you handle your 5K in a week.  Yep, seeing pink unicorns is about the right effort for 5K.  However, I think you want to know if you can use those calculators with your 5K time to later set your training paces for a HM 3 months later.  I say yes.

                             

                            With caveats of course.  Those calculators assume you are doing the required volume of training for the distance.  If someone is running 20mpw then their 5K time is not going to translate well to a HM.  I have found the online calculators to be a great resource, except for the full marathon, where they probably gave me too much confidence to push the pace too fast and the margin for error in a full marathon is thin.

                             

                            jamesd -- SIL is no longer there, you know how it is with the Army.  She is a doctor and her son is now an Army doctor stationed at Benning but we are unlikely to go visit him.  I do have fond memories there though.

                            I strive towards laconic wit, my wife says I'm halfway there.

                              

                            arunnerd.blogspot.com

                            cc4life07


                            Wind is not my friend.

                              I know those calculators are based on appropriate training, etc.  I was just curious if they fit well with others.  I tend to be able to run faster for my 5K and a little slow on others.  However, to add to others, it's probably because I haven't been training enough so that would make sense.

                               

                              Enjoy your last runs to 2021 today (or yesterday)!

                              "Current" PRs

                              5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:19:28 (4/22)

                              Next Race: A 5K of some sort (Goal: Sub 17:30)

                              arunnerd


                              Roads Scholar

                                I know those calculators are based on appropriate training, etc.  I was just curious if they fit well with others.  I tend to be able to run faster for my 5K and a little slow on others.  However, to add to others, it's probably because I haven't been training enough so that would make sense.

                                 

                                I would put myself in the same boat as you, my times at shorter distances line up better than longer distances.  Apparently RP feels the opposite.  Certainly there are some runners like that.

                                 

                                In addition to training volume, I think body-type matters a lot too.  I am built like a rugby player so even if I am at peak fitness I still carry more mass than a prototypical lithe distance runner.  At longer distances it is vitally important to keep the core body temperature cool and that is harder to do with more mass.  That is what I tell myself anyway.  Even when I was training well and in peak fitness, I never could get my long distances to line up with short ones.

                                I strive towards laconic wit, my wife says I'm halfway there.

                                  

                                arunnerd.blogspot.com