You be the coach. Mold me. (Read 1313 times)

So, I'm planning on signing up for 2nd marathon soon (TC on Oct. 4th) and want some advice on were to go from here. The Background Last year, in January, I knew I had the time to train for a marathon and wanted to cross it off my "life list". Hadn't run almost 9 years, although I would have never called myself a runner. I ran track in HS (400 and 800m) mainly to stay in shape for football and basketball, probably never more than 30 mpw peak for 3 months per year. I took it pretty slow, worked through some shin splints and, by far, had my worst run since coming back to running on marathon day (4:37). But my fitness was greatly improved, noted by the 10K I ran 2 weeks after the marathon even if it might have been a little short (41:20 w/ huge kick at the end). I was discouraged. The Current State of Things After the marathon, I took about 4 months off. No injury, just lost the will. Then most of Nov-Feb ran about 10-20 mpw. Once the weather started to get a little nicer I worked my way up and am currently starting my 4th week at 40 mpw. These have included a 2-3 mile tempo run, but that's it other than easy running 8:00-8:30 pace. I've only done one race recently a 22 min 5K, which wasn't easy but wasn't an all out effort. Where to now? I have the intermediate and advanced 18-week programs from the Grandma's website, put out by Dick Beardsley. I did the novice last year and liked it. Definitely don't think it had any bearing on my poor marathon performance. The intermediate seems too light on miles (starts at 30 peaks at 56) and work (1-2 tempo, hills, fartlek workouts a week), but the advanced seems too hard (peaks at 71 miles which would be OK, but includes 2-3 tempo, hills, MP or track workouts). Mainly the track workouts seem to be a reach, the hardest I believe being 6x1600 w/400 recovery. I would start June 1st, for an 18 week program. So finally here are the questions for you..... 1) Should I increase to 50+ base before June 1st? I've only had 1 50+ week before. 2) How far for long runs and what type of long run patterns do you suggest (ex. 15/16/17/18/19/20 or 18/20/16/21/17/22)? I'm at 12 right now. 3) What's your preference on hard runs? How many miles for tempo and MP runs? Track suggestions? I run the hardest hills I have most days (which aren't that hard about 1/4 mile, low grade) Hill repeats? 4) What do you think a reasonable peak mileage is? Thanks in advance for your help. Obviously, if you couldn't tell by the length of this thread, this is my goal race for the year. Please don't include "rules" like 10% rule or run more. I much prefer specific anecdotal evidence of what's worked for you or a running partner. Egg

Thanks MM. You helped me make a decision to pretty much stick to the intermediate plan, just add a little more mileage in. Maybe hit the track late in the training, I don't think I've run a timed mile since 9 grade. The only reason I didn't want to hear the "run more" comment is that's already in the plans for me. I realize it is good advice, I've already gone from about a 30 minute 5K to the current 22 mostly on running more easy miles. I've just seen more than one too many threads where even less experienced runners than myself ask advice and they get 20 responses to "run more". I think they want more specifics and personal experiences, everyday in the Plan that I have has a little note by it saying something like, "Make sure it's easy today, just go the distance." or "Stay relaxed during the fast section". I read them everyday before my workout last time and plan to again this time.

Mikey's pretty much got you covered, I'll just add you'll probably want at least one hard run half marathon in your plan. Maybe even a 30k if you can find one. Those races will give you the best idea of a target pace for your full, using pace calculators from shorter distances can give unrealistic goals. Nothing wrong with a stretch goal, but take it too far beyond a stretch goal and it can become a very unpleasant experience. Best of luck to you.

Yep, right now on the schedule are 10K July 4th Half August 1st 25K early Sept, I think it's still being run the website still has 2008 up Other than that we'll see. I'm trying to find another cheap half, but I haven't found one close. Anyone have a link to a good WI race listing or suggestions of good and cheap MN, WI, IA, maybe ND or SD halfs?

You are a lot like me only for me the first marathon was Oct. '06 and I did not take time off after that race. Look at my log from Oct. '06 to Apr. '07. The last 8 weeks prior to the race in '07 is part of a Pfitz plan from Advanced Marathoning (I have the first volume, I have heard volume 2 has harder plans than the original but I have not been to B&N or Borders to check it out yet). Unfortunately, all the miles are labeled easy because that part of my log was transferred from another running website and I never cared to go back and put the proper labels in place (tempo, intervals, etc.). The rest of the questions can be answered by picking a plan. If you get the book I mentioned above, I know it has plans for various mileages and it works great for me. If I were you, I would start looking at books by Pfitz (Pete Pfitzinger), or any other runner you hold in high regard while happily running through your base phase. Look at the plans they have after reading the books and pick one. Mark on your calender when you are 8 or 12 weeks out and have your decision made by then. I will tell you what helped me the most though. The hard/easy thing. You see, the type of training I do for base phase (LHR) dictates my pace. Well, since my pace varies little from day to day, especially on the treadmill, the only way for me to have hard/easy days was through distance. During the time in my log that have directed you to, I want you to notice that during my base phase, I technically had 3 'hard' days a week, one long run and two med-long runs. Those hard days are what prepared me for the 8 week plan I used from Pfitz. It worked really well form me then so I stick to it now as I get back into shape. Run hard does not always mean run fast. Sometimes, run hard means run farther more often. So guess what? I just said, run more, but was very long winded about it. You happy?

Looking at your training log in light of your recent 5k time, I'd suggest varying your paces more. It looks like your easy/long runs are too fast and your tempo runs are a bit too slow. Plug your 5k time in the McMillan calculator or something similar and you'll see what I mean. If you don't like your current 5k time because it wasn't an all out effort, run a 5k at all out effort and see what you can do. Or run 5 as Tchuck suggests and tweak your paces accordingly. Plenty of programs have speedwork as an element only one day a week. So I wouldn't worry about only one speedwork day a week as being too easy.

Thanks, I’m allergic to tree pollen, fertilizer, and penicillin.

My post was an attempt at humor based on the misspelling of "mould". I guess I shouldn't be a smartass.

I'm using my 41:20 10K time in McMillian for my paces. I am pretty sure I am at least that fit. Calculator says 7:55 to 8:25 for easy runs, 7:55 to 8:55 for long runs, and 6:45 to 7:02 for tempos. Today my tempo run was 2.8 miles at 7:07 pace, so I guess yeah it was a little slow but not by much. The total tempo pace in my log includes warm-up and cool down.

Ah, I just looked at the pace column in your workouts and didn't look under the hood. I thought you were running 7:57 etc. tempos. So it seems like your paces are fine.