Forums >Running 101>10K under 50 minutes... Please help
Gradually varies by the individual and their current level of conditioning, if you do not understand the concept of “GRADUALLY” then I’m sorry, there really isn’t much I can teach you. You’re suggesting ten to twelve kilometers per workout is too much? Yikes, what world do you live in? I’d say it is barely sufficient. What was I betting on? When it comes to training and treadmills, “running” is not “running”. In what world does moving one’s legs and arms back and forth while the torso remains basically stationary equate to the dynamics of running out on the roads, or better still, on trails? IMHO, working out on a treadmill is exercise, but it is a poor substitute to running.
Gradually varies by the individual and their current level of conditioning, if you do not understand the concept of “GRADUALLY” then I’m sorry, there really isn’t much I can teach you.
You’re suggesting ten to twelve kilometers per workout is too much? Yikes, what world do you live in? I’d say it is barely sufficient.
What was I betting on?
When it comes to training and treadmills, “running” is not “running”. In what world does moving one’s legs and arms back and forth while the torso remains basically stationary equate to the dynamics of running out on the roads, or better still, on trails? IMHO, working out on a treadmill is exercise, but it is a poor substitute to running.
That's fascinating. The best way of training just happens to be the exact way that you train.
IMHO, working out on a treadmill is exercise, but it is a poor substitute to running.
Yeah! I mean, look at that faker Schneidr thinking he can get faster through treadmill interval workouts!!
Half Fanatic #846
I just hope you don't want to take 4-7 minutes off your 3 mile time in the next couple of weeks!
"I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk. "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt". I ran half my last race on my left foot!
#artbydmcbride
IMHO = in my humble opinion?
Runners run
Take Hal Higdon, or the BAA, or just about any other reputable and well constructed 10k training program and they do not have a majority of workouts of 10-12k distance given that the OP's goal is a 50 minute 10k. "Barely sufficient" seems a tad overstated for the world that most of us live in.
And given that many runners from joggers to elites run on treadmills for a majority of their workouts and compete successfully, it's silly and plain wrong to claim that treadmill running is not real.
The process is the goal.
Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.
Feeling the growl again
As for treadmill vs. running outside, some folks, myself included, do not consider running on a treadmill actual running; that said, working out on a treadmill is probably the form of exercise closest to running one can find. When it comes to training and treadmills, “running” is not “running”. In what world does moving one’s legs and arms back and forth while the torso remains basically stationary equate to the dynamics of running out on the roads, or better still, on trails? IMHO, working out on a treadmill is exercise, but it is a poor substitute to running.
As for treadmill vs. running outside, some folks, myself included, do not consider running on a treadmill actual running; that said, working out on a treadmill is probably the form of exercise closest to running one can find.
There are at least a few fast (<2:35 or sub-2:30) marathoners on here who have run those times off a majority of treadmill running. I recall watching someone win the LA Marathon years back who had just come off a Navy ship and had run ALL of their prior 6 months of training on a treadmill.
The world in which treadmill running equates to running outside is the world which obeys the laws of physics. If you do not understand the concept of “PHYSICS” then I’m sorry, there really isn’t much I can teach you.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
When it comes to training and treadmills, “running” is not “running”. In what world does moving one’s legs and arms back and forth while the torso remains basically stationary equate to the dynamics of running out on the roads, or better still, on trails?
HAHAHAHA! Shipo = sportjester??
And what spaniel said. Please go back to physics 101.
I will say this --- I do advise running on varied surfaces (trails are good for this) to engage a broader set of stabilizing muscles that may get weak of one does only treadmill running. But doing such flat, straight line running on a treadmill is no different than on a similar surface outdoors, like a flat, straight road.
Latent Runner
HAHAHAHA! Shipo = sportjester?? And what spaniel said. Please go back to physics 101.
Apparently you got an "EF" in physics 101; EF = Epic Fail.
As for treadmill workouts, I'll be the first to admit that they are the closest thing to running (from a workout and body preparation perspective) without actually running. That said, take two "beginner" runners capable of running a 10-minute pace, one having run a given number of miles on roads or trails, and the other the same number of miles at exclusively on a treadmill. Now take both runners and have them run a 10K road race (on a relatively straight and flat course); the treadmill runner will lose to the outdoor runner nine times out of ten. Why? Physics. The body of the treadmill person is simply not conditioned to endure the dynamics of "running" with the added elements of monentum and relatively irregular surfaces. Throw in curves and hills and corners and the need to navigate around other runners and such, and the advantage to the outdoor runner becomes even greater.
Are there exceptions to the rule? Yes, there are exceptions to every rule.
Fat old man PRs:
Running on a treadmill is running. Continuing to say it's not, making up bizarre hypothetical scenarios, and saying, "Because physics," doesn't change this basic fact.
I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I must admit, I skipped what seems to be the relevant course here, Aristotelian physics. Perhaps you could enlighten us on the true nature of momentum, I mean, "monentum". While you are at it, explain to me how it's even possible to run 10k at one time, when first you have to go halfway, but to do that you first have to go halfway to halfway, etc., so how can you even move at all?!
OK, I agree now, treadmill "running" is not at all the same as running while actually moving, because the latter is clearly impossible.
Chris Clark 2000 Olympic trials winner with 2:33:31 on only treadmill training in Alaska.
"dancing on the path and singing, now you got away,
you can reach the goals you set from now on, every day"
Sonata Arctica
I find running on treadmill is harder than running on road. There are a few reasons.
1. Indoors here is usually warmer than outdoors and I sweat more.
2. Constant speed tires me quicker than various speeds on road.
3. Constant various elevation is also tougher for me.
4. Often treadmills are designed to absorb feet touch impact, it is harder to bounce and drive forward. For me, running on the same pace, it is always harder on treadmill than on road.
5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08 (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)
Apparently you got an "EF" in physics 101; EF = Epic Fail. As for treadmill workouts, I'll be the first to admit that they are the closest thing to running (from a workout and body preparation perspective) without actually running. That said, take two "beginner" runners capable of running a 10-minute pace, one having run a given number of miles on roads or trails, and the other the same number of miles at exclusively on a treadmill. Now take both runners and have them run a 10K road race (on a relatively straight and flat course); the treadmill runner will lose to the outdoor runner nine times out of ten. Why? Physics. The body of the treadmill person is simply not conditioned to endure the dynamics of "running" with the added elements of monentum and relatively irregular surfaces. Throw in curves and hills and corners and the need to navigate around other runners and such, and the advantage to the outdoor runner becomes even greater. Are there exceptions to the rule? Yes, there are exceptions to every rule.
I can provide clear data as to the physics supporting no significant difference between running on a treadmill versus outside. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you can't provide a single shred of evidence supporting anything you have said above. That's the typical pattern that emerges when people post "facts" here which are completely unsupported by science or even anecdotal experience.
I went from 0% treadmill runner to 80-90% treadmill runner in a very short period of time. That was several years ago, and there are still long stretches I do little/no outdoor running. My running performances are clearly correlated with my mpw, but no correlation appears depending upon where I was doing the running.
MTA: I missed that gem on "momentum". You really need to study the concept of a reference frame.