Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
RIP Milkman
It's cute that the two Kiwis posted the same exact thing about speed golf at exactly the same time.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Hi all,
sorry for the absence, this week is not the best, I have to act as caregiver for my dad (65 with a severe bipolar - we think but it is changing - depression, and anxiety) and grandmother (90) in Italy while working, so I had no time to run (only went once since the beginning of the week for about 30 minutes) or look at internet (but I notice a series of nice race reports and posts, I will go through them as soon as I have some time...thanks!)
last week was good, with 44.5 miles and a couple of good training sessions (interval and tempo) but I noticed I am having difficulties speeding up. I think it could be a problem with the hot humid weather (I am depleting all my minerals and probably iron as I am always tired).
I will try to get back on track from tomorrow to the end of the week and see if I can fit in a couple of good sessions. next week is the last in Italy, I will be back in the UK on the 19th.
bye all
Marco
PRs since re-started in 2013:
5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18)
HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)
Upcoming races:
???
Marco - Good to hear from you.
Watson - Good luck on your race. I saw you did an 8K tempo today. Do you usually do tempos that long before a half?
Weather - Since my Strava feed has become a troll-fest for weather related items (I sort of instigate it by constantly talking about it, I know), I'll mention my cruise intervals yesterday didn't go well. Flavio - I think you said doing workouts in 73/23 degree dew (Kiwi) point is okay as long as you slow down. In general, I agree with you! I do think there's something a bit different though doing Daniels style workouts. I would have been fine doing something like 1 mi warmup, 3x2 cruise, 1 mi cooldown. However, doing 6 as a warmup really drains you, literally. I was absolutely soaking wet before I even started my intervals. I've found that once my runs get to 14+, I cannot hydrate enough to ward off serious dehydration. Usually, in let's say something like 75 temp, 65 DP, which is still pretty bad running conditions, I get pretty dehydrated but not to anywhere near the levels I'm at during this kind of summer weather. For me, that breaking point is when I actually feel very thirsty. Even when dehydrated, I don't normally get thirsty during runs, more just when I've stopped and I'm back home. But it's been so bad here lately that even with stopping 5 times for water during my 15 mile run yesterday, I couldn't do anything to ward off serious thirst and this general feeling of "I would do almost anything right now for a drink of water".
Cobra Commander Keen
Marco - Sorry for the family issues, but good for you for stepping up.
JMac - I, for one, have loved reading through the comments on your workouts! Side note: there is a ridiculous number of Strava segments in Central Park.
Workouts - I might be slightly jealous of everyone else I know doing Daniels having a 3T, 2T, 1T run. I have a 3T, 2T that esentially repeats for the next two weeks. I think I might add in that extra T mile to the workout in 3 weeks - If I'm feeling good I'll go for it, if not I'll just cancel the workout at that point and nothing changes.
There has been some conversation in the sub-3:20 thread about T miles vs minutes for mortals. Since doing my T workouts by miles instead of 5-minute chunks looks to still fit in with the overall volume I'm running, I do think I'll split the difference and increase the rest periods between T sections to fall more in line with the 5:1 work:rest ratio since running the given recoveries doesn't quite get me the "proper" amount of recovery. It only amounts to an extra 16 seconds of rest per T mile, but that'll make a difference.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Keen - Glad you enjoy the trolling Piwi does on a near daily basis. Regarding the T workout stuff, your sentiments are something I went through, almost word for word. Decided to keep the distance even though the spirit of Daniels would say that it would be in 5 minute bursts, mainly because he has some 4T intervals in some plans which make no sense unless they are at 5:00 pace. I haven't adjusted my rest, but it's something I should consider as my 3T is somewhere around 18:30-19:00 in this weather, and yet I'm only taking 3 minutes rest. I don't, however, want to convert everything to 15 minutes for 3T because it leads to awkward distances. So I think I'll up my rest to 70 seconds instead of 60 seconds per T.
Problem Child
Workouts - I might be slightly jealous of everyone else I know doing Daniels having a 3T, 2T, 1T run. I have a 3T, 2T that esentially repeats for the next two weeks. I think I might add in that extra T mile to the workout in 3 weeks - If I'm feeling good I'll go for it, if not I'll just cancel the workout at that point and nothing changes. There has been some conversation in the sub-3:20 thread about T miles vs minutes for mortals. Since doing my T workouts by miles instead of 5-minute chunks looks to still fit in with the overall volume I'm running, I do think I'll split the difference and increase the rest periods between T sections to fall more in line with the 5:1 work:rest ratio since running the given recoveries doesn't quite get me the "proper" amount of recovery. It only amounts to an extra 16 seconds of rest per T mile, but that'll make a difference.
Feel free to do my 3-2-1 workout. You'd THINK that last mile would be fine. IT. SUCKS. It's probably the worst 3 minutes of running and wishing everything was over while also convincing yourself not to quit and just hang on because 3 minutes isn't that long.
jmac thanks for the input on workouts over in the Chicago thread. I'll probably read a lot in here since your, mine and Keen's weather are similar (they suck) and we're using JD 2Q plans with different mileage apparently. I was a little surprised to see your workout wasn't identical to mine so I'm assuming you're making it up, OR doing an older 2Q plan. It helps knowing how to compare weather/effort and some sort of way to calculate an acceptable "slow down" with heat. I get to double dip with heat and elevation and, weather permitting, I'll be considering doing the Saturday run and maybe the Sunday workout (60 min E + 8M +1E OR 2E+2T+60E+2T+2E) in warmer weather. I'm leaning towards 8M to get fueling practice AND marathon pace practice since I don't have TOO much at M pace and the last one I had stomach issues (8M + 6M cut to 3M) so I feel like I need that more than T.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
JMac - I've noticed some plans do have 4T, which I agree doesn't make sense for mortals (without slowing T pace a bit). My 3T equals out to ~19:41 (before the VDOT bump coming up), which is about as far as I'd go without slowing my T pace to adjust for the extra distance. While my thoughts on this may certainly change down the road, I think extending the recovery periods to match the 5:1 work:rest ratio is a good compromise. If I wasn't getting the mileage I am I'd probably lean toward converting to minutes instead of miles. Typing this out I'm remembering when I first discovered tempo runs about 2 summers ago and it was a real challenge to run just 1-2 miles at ~6:50/mi... How things have changed!
Brew - I'm sure that last T mile does suck, but I can always bail during or skip it entirely and I've still already completed the workout on my plan. Either of those workouts look good to me, but I'd probably lean toward the M pace if I were you. When you look at the distance/pace conversion spreadsheet for T runs 8-10 at M pace is probably about the right intensity to equate to a T run.
Brew - I was supposed to do 3T + 2T + 2T yesterday, but I just couldn't. My last T was a complete sufferfest that was over 30 seconds slower, and I almost bailed after the first 2T, but decided to make it a 3-2-1 workout instead and grind out a last mile @ T. I was doing so well on his 2Q plan this year and hadn't bailed on a single workout, but the accumulated fatigue and the humidity has beaten me down so much lately that I've bailed on a couple of runs. You're so right that it sounds easy when you're thinking about it, but I want to start crying when I have to start that last T. It's just so horrific. I just did the 2E + 2T + ... workout you mentioned, and the last 2T was also miserable. I felt great during the easy portion and thought "I got this 2T in the bag," but my pace was suffering mightily and it took a lot of effort to get it done.
Keen - isn't it amazing what looking back does? My T used to be about 40 seconds slower per mile. I think the recovery is right. I don't know if you read over on LRC, but the poster Smoove is a big Daniels fan and is a proponent of the 5:1 ratio, not necessarily 1 minute per mile. He also said that the same applies for I work as you vary the distance, so your rest should be about 1:1. So if you did something like 1200@I and it takes you 4:30, you should rest something like 4 minutes instead of 3.
Intl. correspondent
Jmac -Higher temps ensure you run a slower pace for the same effort which is good to prevent injuries.
That said, do you drink water regularly throughout the day? That should help with the hydration.
Marco - family first and props for stepping up!
Keen - Isn't it better to just run the plan and arrive comfortably at the race? Remember under trained >>>>> over trained.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Flavio - Im very good about hydrating throughout the day. I often start these big workouts with completely clear urine, ie almost over hydrated. In this weather, it still doesn't matter. Any quality work with 14+ miles I cannot prevent serious dehydration even with drinking during the run. TDP needs to get below 140 for me to be okay.
Jmac - Yeah sorry for being an ass about this, that's our weather for 9 months of the year, but I know how hard it is, that's the temperature from the day I ran the last 50K race in 2016 ( and my marathon PR ). In the last few km all my muscles tensed up and I had trouble breathing normally. Why do we do these things
It wasn't until last years Boston that I realized how much faster I might be able to run in the marathon, when I saw that all but one person from the sub 3 forum bonked horribly losing 30+ minutes on the second half.
thanks all!
Today I finally manage my first proper training session of the week (10 miles), the second if we consider the 4 miles I ran on Tuesday. I am trying to get some tempo or fartlek in but my legs just do not want to go faster than 4:30 while running a medium long run... it's like my body has tipped off depleted of something (minerals? iron?) due to the hot and humid weather (so much sweating all day...).
I'll have to do something about it. For now, as suggested here last week, I will run by effort instead of running by time. I will be back in the UK next week and probably things will get better.
My first 10 K is coming up on the 2nd of September, I'd love to go below 40', but I am not sure I can at the moment... but there is still time.
For now I will try to complete my week hanging on the 40 miles (I need 10 mile tomorrow and 16 on Sunday, feasible...). considering the week I would consider it an achievement.
Then next week I will try again some interval.
have a nice end of the week and weekend.
Ha Flavio, no worries, you're not being an ass. I totally get the "just slow down and deal with it." I have no problem getting standard runs and workouts in during this weather. My 10 mile runs lead to me coming home absolutely soaked in sweat, but I can slow down and be fine. The problem is doing 14+ miles with quality. You can probably slow down a lot, but the problem is hydration. It's almost impossible to keep up with your sweat rate, so you get progressively worse as the miles increase. I can't imagine ever running a marathon in this weather. Props to you.
My week is done early as I can't run Saturday or Sunday. I'll be squeezing in 3 Q days next week. Sounds scary, but it wouldn't sound so bad if you did Q days on Sunday, Thursday, Saturday, since it wouldn't show up in the weekly as 3 runs in 7 days (since they would span over 2 different weeks). I don't really need to summarize the week, I think my rantings of a mad man on the Kiwi Point over the last week tell you my week was trash.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Aug 06, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 12, 2018
Jmac - if I understand correctly Jack Daniels just states the workout, not the total mileage. What if you ran less warm up miles and moved those easy miles to the easier days, maybe a double on the easier days? I'd reckon you don't need to warm up as much in those temps.
It will be theoretically less beneficial, but doable, and the result would probably be more satisfactory. I'm sure you will crush this regardless of these temps. Gut-less Jack for the win!
Marco - You might also run a predictor workout 10 days before the race, hopefully in very similar conditions to the race.
Here are some: https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-best-10k-workout/