Forums >Racing>Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon
The 2:43 data is a bid misleading as mileage was a little higher (~60 mpw) earlier that year and I was more than a minute faster at 10k before having things interrupted by a non running injury. One reason I always encourage people to run more miles is not because I did, but more because I didn't . Looking at what many of you guys are doing now, the mileage I was doing pretty much sucked in comparison. I wish they'd had forums like this back then. It might have made a difference. Here's chart of 4 fast course marathons compared to 10k run on fast course 1-4 weeks before:
Are we there yet?
" I wish they'd had forums like this back then. It might have made a difference." The day I found this forum is the day I began my quest to up the mileage and train 60/wk as advised by JimHowe. Big thanks to you man!
I was well on my way to a sub 3hr a couple weeks ago with a 1:24 HM & PR until I was unfortunately dealt an injury. But that is ok because I now know the road map to go sub 3 from everyone's shared knowledge on this site. No guess work involved because the results have been proven.
Perhaps my Patellar tendonitus (runner's knee) will heal in time for me to give it a shot before Boston in SF.. otherwise I will rest it and focus on a chance to go sub 3 on the biggest marathon stage in the world and join the likes of bhearn, dcv2002, dacook, and mikeymike passing by the huge Citgo sign at mile 25 with my Garmin reading in the 2:52 range and coasting to the finish.
BTW, has anyone been prescribed the steroid Prednisone and has success with their recovery??
The 2:43 data is a bid misleading as mileage was a little higher (~60 mpw) earlier that year and I was more than a minute faster at 10k before having things interrupted by a non running injury. One reason I always encourage people to run more miles is not because I did, but more because I didn't . Looking at what many of you guys are doing now, the mileage I was doing pretty much sucked in comparison. I wish they'd had forums like this back then. It might have made a difference. Here's chart of 4 fast course marathons compared to 10k run on fast course 1-4 weeks before: Marathon 10k *MPW 2:50:17 35:46 52 2:48:23 36:13 54 2:44:43 35:20 60 2:43:12 35:28 51 * Mileage was for 16 weeks leading up to race. 10k's run 1-4 wks before
Wow - those are impressive stats Jim, especially the 10k vs marathon performance given the moderate mileage. What sort of weight were you running these times off? Similiar to now?
I'm starting to realise that losing several pounds can make a big difference for me before I do my fall marathon. I'm not totally convinced by the 2 seconds per pound per mile figure people reel out, but losing 7-10 pounds of excess fat has surely got to be worth the equivalent of quite a few months of training benefit.
If only beer wasn't so nice of a summer evening.......
As far as the 10k's, not one of them makes my top 20, so I generally didn't have my best speed for marathons. The one exception was before the 2:48, which was my first marathon. At that time the 36:13 was a big PR. I still consder that first marathon to be my best, even though I ran a litle faster later on. It was the only one where I was completely focused on that distance. For the others I was racing almost every weekend and when I'd start to plateau or regress a little I'd run a marathon for a change of pace. It was a combination of racing every weekend and ignorance that kept me from running more miles.
Of course, the mileage I did last year has much to do with my lower weight so I guess we'll never be able to separate out the effects. But still, a big part of running a better marathon for me continues to be to reduce weight even further. And it's a big struggle. It really seems easier for me to go out and run a hard interval set or a long tempo run rather than forgo that extra serving at the training dinner table.
It really seems easier for me to go out and run a hard interval set or a long tempo run rather than forgo that extra serving at the training dinner table.
You're not alone! Lol!
Well you did some pretty impressive times off racing frequently and moderate miles. Maybe you could have gone faster with more miles & more specific marathon prep, but hey, I'd love to have a 2:43 to my name!
John
I am looking forward to Jim's answer to this one (in light of the fact he and I did an 18miler this morning and he is attempting Cowtown as well)!!
Aha, I only just noticed Jim had put his name down for Cowtown on the first page. Cool. One more reason to do Cowtown. I have to confess that I love the idea of doing a marathon called Cowtown. I grew up in the north of England, not far from Salford, and I still change trains there whenever I fly home. The punk poet John Cooper Clarke used to be known as the' bard of Salford'. Never really reaching the big time he had a few hits in the UK in the 1970's - the exact same time I was doing my growing up in the north of England. Thirty years later I'm watching the Sopranos with my wife in California when 'Evidently Chickentown' comes on - about the best musical cue ever.
Actually there's a lot to like about the Cowtown marathon. If you read this Jim, go ahead and add me to the list for Cowtown.
I think for this Pfitz MP runs you are supposed to do all of the easy stuff first and then end with the MP stuff. So first 9 easy then 8 @ MP. Anyways, should it feel hard. Probably in the beginning. I did a modified 12/70-85 for Boston, but skipped the first MP run since I was coming off of Houston. My first MP run was 19w10@MP. And it definitely didn't feel like I could hold that pace for 26.2. However ,remember the whole reason for the training plan is move your towards running that MP easily for 26.2. It will take 12-18 weeks for that to happen. My first MP run for Boston was slower than by MP for Boston.
Okay, this is possibly a naive question but here goes. I'm working on a modified Pfitzinger 70-85mpw/18wk plan for an October marathon (almost committed to Cowtown, I just haven't registered yet). Today was: Marathon Pace run 17mi w/8mi @ marathon race pace. I actually did this over a known distance to get the splits and did 6 miles at a fairly easy pace, probably 7:30 to 7:45ish followed by 6:55, 6:49, 6:51, 6:50, 6:52, 6:54, 6:53 and 6:51, followed by 3 miles easy-ish to cool down. My question, for those who have done similar workouts 18 weeks out - should that have been so freaking hard? That was a very tough workout mentally, especially for the second half of the mp portion. The idea of keeping up that pace for over three times that distance is kind of freaking me out. Is that normal or am I in over my head? John
John"
Although I've done very few runs over the years that have had significant stretches at MP, I can find 2 examples and they were both tough. Solo workouts are always tougher and similar thoughts have gone through my head many a time during other pace workouts such as tempo intervals--"how in the world am I ever gonna keep this up going twice as far with no rest breaks?" But somehow I have and you will too. No, I don't think you are in over your head--not at all. They'll get easier as you get farther into your schedule.
Right on Hereford...
I'm working on a modified Pfitzinger 70-85mpw/18wk plan for an October marathon (almost committed to Cowtown, I just haven't registered yet). Today was: Marathon Pace run 17mi w/8mi @ marathon race pace.
Ok, I think you just scared the crap out of me. I'm running Chicago on October 11 and I wasn't planning to start marathon training until July 1st. You're already doing 17 miles with 8 at MP? Holy shit.
Am I screwed? (Feel free to check my log. I've been running all easy miles this month in order to give my body a bit of rest, and to hopefully let my knee heal from whatever it is that's been making it hurt.)
I've done a lot of runs just like that: 17 - 20 total with 6-10 @ MP. Lots of them. The weird thing is some days they feel ridiculously hard, some days they feel pretty easy. I wouldn't worry at all about it feeling hard. In fact if it didn't feel hard with 18 weeks to go I'd say you were aiming way too low or peaking way too early.
On another note, Dakota, I wouln't do a run like that 18 weeks out. I'm allegedly running a fall marathon too and I'm not even thinking of marathon workouts yet. August 1 is when that will start for me (my marathon will be late October.) So no, you are definitely NOT screwed. Marathon training is 8-10 weeks if you have a good base, and you do.
Runners run
Ok, I think you just scared the crap out of me. I'm running Chicago on October 11 and I wasn't planning to start marathon training until July 1st. You're already doing 17 miles with 8 at MP? Holy shit. Am I screwed? (Feel free to check my log. I've been running all easy miles this month in order to give my body a bit of rest, and to hopefully let my knee heal from whatever it is that's been making it hurt.)
Nothing to worry about. I'm also going the 12 week route for Chicago with the hopes that my base going into marathon training will be enough to justify not doing an 18 week plan. You should be fine, and it sounds like you're doing the right thing by doing whatever necessary to let your knee heal.
Post Asthma Era PRs: 5K--18:39 (Mar 2016), 10K--39:40 (Feb 2018), HM--1:28:04 (Jan 2017), MAR--2:59:12 (November 2017)