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Long Run Question (Read 988 times)

    I would really appreciate some feed back from long time/higher mileage runners as to the length of the long run. My thought is that I originally pushed my long run up too quickly and was probably running too high a % of my total weekly miles ( LSD 12 -14 on weekly mileage of 35 - 40). As I slowly rebuild my training - I really want to do it right. 1) Is there a % rule of total mileage that is appropriate - what would be a max % ? 2) How much longer than any of your other runs should the long run be? 3) Do you believe in a long run + semi-long run in the same week? 4) What is your LR compared to you weekly mileage? If this topic has already been covered ad nauseum - could you please point me in the direction of any relevant links? Thanks!

    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away...(unkown)




    Go With The Flow
    Thyroid Support Group


    Needs more cowbell!

      Good question. I have often heard that your long run shouldn't be more than 2x longer than your next longest run of the week. I have tried to keep this in mind and it seems to work well. Right now I do 2 60 minute runs (and 1-2 sessions of cross-training for ~ an hour) and have been stuck at 1 ~100 minute run for my long run. Once weather gets better I want to do something more like 2 60 minute runs, 1 75-90 minute, and then increase my long run to over 2 hours. I'm hoping to continue the cross training and only take 1-2 rest days/week. k

      Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

      '14 Goals:

      • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

      • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

        The general rule I've alway been told and go by is 20 to 25% of your weekly mileage with a max around 22 miles, but that might be more if you are training for ultras. However, a lot depends on how many days a week you run. The less days you run the the higher percent your long run should be of your overall mileage. So if you were only running like 3 days a week it might be up to 50%. Back when I was in full training mode I was running 85 miles a week with a 17 to 18 mile long run. The rest of my runs were around 10 miles. Sometimes I would add in a medium long run of 12, which I like. When you're running 40 miles a week how many days a week are you running? Dan
        The point is you see, that there is no point in driving yourself mad trying to stop yourself going mad. You might as well give in and save your sanity for later.
          Probably way too much info that any normal person wouldn't care about, but here's a thread on the subject: http://runningahead.com/forums/topic/b8117662a370413f9f0f0b0cbc3e57ae Re: your questions: My long run generally doesn't go over 40% of weekly mileage, although that's not a personal rule, just works out that way - it's gone over 50% a few times. This week I'll run ~ 50 miles and do a 15 miler. It's interesting that the only time I routinely broke this rule and had the long run regularly be 50%+ each week, I had a horrible marathon. Related? I dunno. Right now I'm running a 14-15 miler once a week - soon I'll go longer and shift that to every other week, with either some track work or a shorter long run on the other weekends. How long should it be? I dunno. For me, it varies. As long as it needs to be to get me to that worn out but not worn down kinda feeling. At the moment, 10 is too easy, 20 would be too long to be productive. 15 feels perfect. I generally only do one long run a week (at most ... as they get longer, it'll be every 2-3 weeks, like I said). I save the other "quality" runs for tempo runs, or fartleks, or maybe hills, or some other kind of speedwork. But I can see how it might make sense to do a semi-long run mid-week, as long as you didn't push it. Modified to add: I did accidently do 10+ today. So if that screws me up, I'll let you know. Smile
          E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
          -----------------------------

            1.) I hate rules of thumb. I've heard many different numbers as the ideal. I know plenty of people whose long runs makes up 50% of their weekly mileage and I know others who don't even do long runs. Both systems can work depending on the goals of the individual. It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish, , how much you're running, how much time you have mid-week versus weekends, and what your strengths and weaknesses are. In general, though I think that if time is no object and you can run whatever schedule you like, the lower % of weekly mileage in one run the better. 2.) See above. For me, I try to have my 2nd longest run be about 75% as long as my longest run, but this isn't always practical. 3.) Yes. For me, always. 4.) Currently about 25% on average, but that is mostly because I'm running lower mileage than I will later in the year, but my longest run is still 13 ish. Another thing about my long runs. I don't really do any. Well I do and I don't. I don't do long runs that are just long runs. My long runs are also my workouts. I don't really do too many that are just a continuous run at one pace. I include tempo runs, intervals, hills and all my other workouts into my two longest runs of the week. The other days are all shorter easier runs, sometimes with some strides. So my longest run and 2nd longest run of the week are also generally my fastest. YMMV.

            Runners run.

            muse_runner


            keep running.

              Heeey Mikey So you actually do longer than 100m strides within your long long runs? Hmm I never heard of that. Interesting. Is this for any purpose other than breaking up the run into more interesting components? A 15 miler with mile repeats and recoveries sounds exhilarating and torturous at the same time. Something to consider for 07' fo sho'.... hmmmm
              running until I hit 1900 miles for the year. whether fast or slow I will just run.
                Z-Z - that sounds about where I want to be. once a runner: 40 miles was usually 5 days "other" runs being 5 - 8 range. Typically, would take a rest day before my LR and an easy shorter run the day after - felt I had better recovery that way. JK:thanks for the link! I plan on reading it in depth this week. mikeymike: 25% seems to be the number I have come across most often.I would generally run steady for the 1st hour and then slowly ^ the pace every mile to the "finish". Thanks for the replies - I know everyone is different - but it still helps to hear what other people do as I am in a holding/planning phase right now. I have some non-running issues that are keeping me from running more than every other day so I am moving to a more "time" based rather than "mileage" based training. I figure as I get stronger the time and mileage goals will meet. After getting an evaluation from my PT, I was really surprised to find that my leg muscle strength wasn't what I thought it was - so maybe I finally will get the motivation to factor in some structured resistance training on my off days.

                Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away...(unkown)




                Go With The Flow
                Thyroid Support Group


                A Dance with Monkeys

                  1) Is there a % rule of total mileage that is appropriate - what would be a max % ? -It should not be more than 30% of your total miles. Most folks do not follow this rule, but when you do not, your risk of injury goes up. 2) How much longer than any of your other runs should the long run be? -No more than 200% the length of your second longest run. It is best to do at least two runs at the second longest length in a week. 3) Do you believe in a long run + semi-long run in the same week? -Yes. I like to run a given length twice or three times, twice that length twice and the long run four times that length once. 4) What is your LR compared to you weekly mileage? -For a 55 mile week: 5 miles, 5 miles, 10 miles, 5 miles, 10 miles, 20 miles.
                    Heeey Mikey So you actually do longer than 100m strides within your long long runs? Hmm I never heard of that. Interesting. Is this for any purpose other than breaking up the run into more interesting components? A 15 miler with mile repeats and recoveries sounds exhilarating and torturous at the same time. Something to consider for 07' fo sho'.... hmmmm
                    Well I do lots of things within my long runs but I generally consider strides to mean short (20-30 second) bursts of speeed with full recoveries. So I do some strides in my long runs but usually at the end when I've already finished the "workout" part of the run. One example of this would be a 13 miler with the first 5 miles easy to medium, then 8 x 2 minutes @ CV (a pace somewhere between 10K and 10 mile pace) with 1 minute recoveries, then 5 minutes easy, then 3 x 20 seconds fast with 45-60 second recoveries, then an easy mile or so to finish. I did this one a lot last summer/fall as I was trying to rapidly get back into some semblance of shape for a Half Marathon after a long layoff from racing. A bigger workout might be to run 2.5 miles easy to the track, then run 4 x 2 miles at Half Marathon pace with 400m recoveries, then 3 x 200m fast with 200m jog recovery, then 2.5 miles easy home ~ 15 miles or so total. This is a continuous run. I did this one a couple times last summer/fall as well. A big mid-week workout might be 9 or 10 miles with 3 x 8 min @ LT, or a 4 mile tempo run, or a 3 mile "easy tempo" run +4 x a 2 minute hill. Those will get bigger later in the year as I start amping my overall mileage. At this point I'm just trying to survive winter. After years of trial and error, a long layoff during which I had time to process all that I had done right and wrong in the past, as well as a lot of reading and comparing notes with a lot of other runners, I've adopted this "Two Big Workouts" philosophy. I've only been doing it this way since June of last year, but so far so good. I've been able to get back into respectable shape pretty quickly and I feel like I'm set up well for 07. We'll see how it goes. I used to do most my long runs just like Chenille described:
                    I would generally run steady for the 1st hour and then slowly ^ the pace every mile to the "finish".
                    And I still do some of my long runs this way. I think these can be very, very effective, especially for really long (marathon prep) runs. I think that not only does this provide the best stimulus for improvement (running hardest when your tired already) but it is great mental training for the race itself.

                    Runners run.

                    muse_runner


                    keep running.

                      Well I do lots of things within my long runs but I generally consider strides to mean short (20-30 second) bursts of speeed with full recoveries. So I do some strides in my long runs but usually at the end when I've already finished the "workout" part of the run.
                      Ok... that's where I'd put it too. I have done my last mile of a long run at 5k pace. Esp when my long run is the shortest long run I put in my program. I then either jog or walk it out...
                      One example of this would be a 13 miler with the first 5 miles easy to medium, then 8 x 2 minutes @ CV (a pace somewhere between 10K and 10 mile pace) with 1 minute recoveries, then 5 minutes easy, then 3 x 20 seconds fast with 45-60 second recoveries, then an easy mile or so to finish. I did this one a lot last summer/fall as I was trying to rapidly get back into some semblance of shape for a Half Marathon after a long layoff from racing.
                      now that is awesome. wow what a cool training secret! I'm gonna have to do that after this lovely season.
                      A bigger workout might be to run 2.5 miles easy to the track, then run 4 x 2 miles at Half Marathon pace with 400m recoveries, then 3 x 200m fast with 200m jog recovery, then 2.5 miles easy home ~ 15 miles or so total. This is a continuous run. I did this one a couple times last summer/fall as well.
                      interesting too! i'd never do that run with repeats any faster than Half mar pace-- sounds like PHEW!
                      A big mid-week workout might be 9 or 10 miles with 3 x 8 min @ LT, or a 4 mile tempo run, or a 3 mile "easy tempo" run +4 x a 2 minute hill. Those will get bigger later in the year as I start amping my overall mileage. At this point I'm just trying to survive winter.
                      I do something similar midweek. I love it!
                      After years of trial and error, a long layoff during which I had time to process all that I had done right and wrong in the past, as well as a lot of reading and comparing notes with a lot of other runners, I've adopted this "Two Big Workouts" philosophy. I've only been doing it this way since June of last year, but so far so good. I've been able to get back into respectable shape pretty quickly and I feel like I'm set up well for 07. We'll see how it goes.
                      by two big workouts you mean that you load a whole bunch of training stimuli onto a long or medium long run 2x per week and then just do general base mileage the rest of the week?
                      running until I hit 1900 miles for the year. whether fast or slow I will just run.
                        by two big workouts you mean that you load a whole bunch of training stimuli onto a long or medium long run 2x per week and then just do general base mileage the rest of the week?
                        Exactamente! I may do some strides on a couple of the other days (not the day after a Big Workout) but otherwise easy base mileage.

                        Runners run.

                        muse_runner


                        keep running.

                          Yup that's some smart stuff right there. Smile I do my best training during marathon training 'cause that's when you can load up like that on miles and it's all purposive Big grin
                          running until I hit 1900 miles for the year. whether fast or slow I will just run.
                          db7


                            Go to marathontraining.com - I think the advice they give is really good. B

                            Tougher than most, dumber than the rest. "You can not count the miles until you feel them" TVZ

                            muse_runner


                            keep running.

                              Hey Mikeeyyyyy Big grin I did a superworkout today I ran 60% of my long run at medium easy pace (in hills to warm up), then did 4 miles tempo, the last mile at 5k pace, and then a lovely cool down wogger. Totally exhilarating! Thanks for the tips. Big grin -J
                              running until I hit 1900 miles for the year. whether fast or slow I will just run.