2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

 

you can look at my log anytime you want

How you doin'? Oh wait.

Hi Ya'll!!     just a bemused lurker here.  Have you considered opening up your running logs so interested parties could learn even more from your training regimens?  Thanks in advance!  

 Ileneforward ~ I (still) use pen and paper (really), so won't be helpful that way, but post my week almost every Sunday, if that helps at all.

rlk ~ saw, but haven't read yet.

Ace ~ Constantly. I'm getting better at focusing on "what do I really want?"

brew- i'm crying. read this. 
"Are hills steeper now? Are boats harder to tow? Are families larger, or pieces of 4x8 plywood? [no to all of those question - yes, even the one about family sizes.] The latest generation of supersize vehicles offers little in the way of real-world advantages over its predecessors. In many cases it’s just more unused capacity. A 2017 survey conducted by the University of Michigan reported that light-truck owners use their vehicle predominantly for transportation (68.9%) and commuting (65.4%)."
"Automakers always say they just aim to give the customer what they want, but they never mention the billions in advertising and marketing spent convincing customers what they want. Just like in the 1990s, the industry is pushing larger vehicles precisely because they are profitable."

oregon- "with a more relaxed mindset you could surprise yourself in the mile " that's what coach said. i will take your optimism - thanks!

yes i saw that re. Galen. interesting...

yikes! I hope your hip pain goes away. I had a foot/ankle scare a few weeks before CIM last year. It was so bad that I took the bus home mid-run once - taking each step hurt. 2 days off and it was normal and i still don't know what it was, if anything. mysteries CAN happen - hoping yours is one too!

ace- took the words out of my mouth, haha. lots of de-lurking and yes, feels a little creepy!

re. running goals - yes! don't get selfish, even though you probably already know that. trails/ultras/destination races I think are great for fun seasons or for AFTER your big marathon goal. a few years ago i did a solid marathon training cycle, ran chicago (40seconds slower than my PR at the time -_- ), and THEN i recovered and ran some trail races, incl a 50k. i did feel burnt out by the time the 50k rolled around, though.

question: people say "my goal is to BQ", phrased differently. is that just a goal of "train to be the best I can be" but you have a time benchmark in mind? nobody trains to run a BQ and no faster, right..?

"question: people say "my goal is to BQ", phrased differently. is that just a goal of "train to be the best I can be" but you have a time benchmark in mind? nobody trains to run a BQ and no faster, right..?"

Honestly, that's about it in terms of my marathon goals. I don't expect to have the time to train enough to get much faster at that distance.

I do have some faster goals at shorter distances, and some other random goals. And maybe if I make some of those, I'll be able to crank out a faster marathon just on that training. But I'm not getting any younger, either...

Rats. The marathon I was thinking I'd run in September is full.  They have three on the same course, in June, August, and September, and I didn't think September would sell out this early.  The August version is still open but I already have plans that weekend.  I'll have to start looking around for something else.

I have the same exact combination now. Kinvara 7 and Escalante. Always loved my Kinvara and loving my escalante now. I have tried MErrel bare access in the past. When i started to increase my mileage, I felt a bit of cushioning feels good

Ace - Yes!! There are some ultras I'd like to try, but fall marathon training has gotten in the way there. I'd also like to pace a race or two, maybe find a super-long relay to do. Or even just a marathon relay. Maybe I'll be free to try those next year if I get a BQ this fall. I'm wanting to get my wife back into running as well. She has always enjoyed it and the atmosphere around races, but hasn't had time to run much lately.

I went through a Kinvara phase a year or so ago, running a marathon in them. I liked them (Kinvara 6? maybe 7), but then liked the Freedom more. Then came to like the Altra Escalante more than that. I seem to have an affinity for low/no drop shoes.

Lots of lurkers coming out of the woodwork.

Zero running for me this weekend, DW and I are taking a tiny little vacation for ourselves. It's good to get away sometimes!

question: people say "my goal is to BQ", phrased differently. is that just a goal of "train to be the best I can be" but you have a time benchmark in mind? nobody trains to run a BQ and no faster, right..?

I'll bet if you look at the data, there are clusters of people right around BQ times. Also right around 3:59. And 2:59, and so on.

I'm of the mindset that hard cutoffs are toxic. If you are satisfied with your training and race execution, hitting a specific time shouldn't matter. But that took some learning that came specifically from chasing hard cutoffs. This all is to be taken with a grain of salt, however, because I haven't trained seriously since 2014.

Looking forward to that B2B getup. And yes, it's an SUV arms race out here (also, my minivan, which typically only gets driven on weekends, can tow my boat just fine).

Bonkin - It's big, it's heavy, it's wood.

Ace - I wear custom orthotics with the Kinvara 8 and haven't had any issues. Can't speak to other versions though.

Logs - Mine are public. Do not go looking there for anything of value.

Relay - I believe there was some talk among the 3:20 old-timers on RWOL about this https://www.bourbonchase.com/

wow, thanks for all the feedback on shoes and daniels! Very interesting discussions on the daniels front! I'm learning a lot with this.

DkW / TURD - thanks for the exhaustive review of the sub 2s. It seemed like a good alternative to the adios to me, especially because of that wider toebox you mention. But the low drop may be a problem. And it may also be too stiff for a FM for me, but may be worth trying (at least at the shoestore). The more evenly distributed boost vs the adios is probably a consequence of the lower drop I imagine.

dkg - that was my thought on progress as well. I guess the answer on how do you progress from a first run like that, is in the fact that you are then running 23 mile LR with 14 miles T later on, hehe. I got the impression the level was pretty much constant throughout the 12 weeks (maybe a slight progress), which maybe makes sense if you are an elite that has been training for a while. Haha at the canova line!

SC - interesting about them posting by time of day, I ran a HM that was like that too last year. As a participant it was a bit of a hassle to find my pictures.

JMac - thanks for the input on Daniels! I have read the book (a bit superficially, hard to do with two kids under two at home), and also noticed the inconsistencies in the limits he puts on % of miles and the mileage of his plans. I thought of these rules as a "general rule", but not something to take too strictly. I find that otherwise, especially on the lower mileage plans, you can't complete any workout.

And I have no issues with the lurkers, I've lurked on the sub 3 thread a lot. So, I saw your training and how well you did on NY, congrats on that! How did you modify your workouts to fit Daniel's rule (if at all)? I remember you were in the lower end of the mileage, at least compared to the rest of the sub 3 RWOL thread, which makes your result even more impressive.

CK / OMR - I guess a way to modify them would be using the time conversions mentioned by CK and OMR. From what I remember, it was 1 T mile = 5 min, and 1 M mile = 6 mins. Even with those conversions, the 2Q plan workouts could be tough. And kudos to OMR, for doing the hard plan, I'm impressed. I don't think I can put 90 mpw, so I think I'll end up going back to the 2Q plan, but it's great seeing that one of us mortals actually did the 12 week plan, even with the time conversions.

McB - I like the use of the expression "we're on the same boat" in this specific case, as our shoes probably do look like boats. I liked the cushion level that the kinvara brought, so I probably wouldn't move to the zealot. It's good to see a big guy like myself has used the Kinvaras often in FM. I'll run often in the pair I have and see if I get used to the lower drop. I started running in higher drop shoes by chance, so I imagine I can adapt to a lower drop.

rune - I'll take a look at the table for prioritizing weeks and the 6 week progression you talked about on Daniels book. I don't remember reading about that on the book, thanks a lot for bringing that up! I do remember the different phases though, and I ended up using that as an guideline to remove some weeks when It trained for a HM using his plan but only had 8 weeks due to injury. Maybe we'll meet up in Amsterdam! Are you registered already?

dad - your comment on bad marketing were exactly my thoughts. Why put a plan for sub 2:10 (or even elites) marathoners in a book!

rlk - thanks for the suggestions on NB shoes! This is a brand I'd like to try more since I've heard good things about. From what I could see, the 890 and vongos still look like the drop is a bit lower than what I've used, but they are definitely worth a try! The vongos would likely be more a daily running shoe for me since they seem a bit heavy for a FM.

Re: BQ goal - I think the fact that this group is for 3:20 marathoners means that we are already close to a BQ, so people here would try to go for that hard goal. I agree with McB completely on that if you go to other circles you'll find people aiming for sub-4, or sub-2:40. And I also agree that hard cutoffs could be toxic, from my own experience having failed on my last 3 sub3 attempts. Of course it is important that those goals are relatively realistic. I do find they give me extra motivation. I hope with time (I am still very new to running) I'll me able to find that motivation without needing these hard goals.

ace - agree completely on the great cushion / weight ratio of the Kinvaras.

Re multiple goals - I completely agree as well. Running seems to be a sport of patience, with long training cycles. It is hard not too want to do too much too fast. I do believe, however, that you can still do a bunch of goals at the same time. For example, a HM PR and a FM PR in one training cycle. I also think that a trail HM is definitely in line with FM training. I am planning on doing more trail runs (and maybe races) during the summer as preparation for the FM. We'll see if I manage.

arv - I also believe you may have lot more to contribute than you think. There are many here (including myself) who probably have less experience than you.