2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

keen It was as hard, and not as hard, as I expected. The 8 M wasn't the worse thing since I'd just done it a few days prior. The first T mile was okay. About what I'd expected for dropping pace about 20 seconds. The second T wasn't fun. In my opinion the workout mimics dropping the hammer for the last 2 miles of a marathon. It is uncomfortable, but you know you can do it if you JUST FOCUS ON RUNNING. Legs hurt. Breathing hurts. Somehow I was running 2 miles faster than I'd just run 8 and it just made me think of every time I'd been within 2 miles, or 15 minutes, of the finish line of any race. I was literally telling myself "this is the difference between 3:06 and 3:07" along with other motivational things. The last M mile wasn't easy but some of that is where it ends. I told myself I'd do at least one 2T session to see how it went because Jmac, you and max said to give it a shot. I thought it might not be AS HARD as I was making it out to be. It was. It wasn't to be taken lightly. I knew as soon as I finished the second T mile 2 minutes wasn't going to be enough recovery and I didn't have a second 2T in me. I knew I'd MAYBE get through a mile but even if I did it would just drop slower and slower and probably end around 8:00 pace. 185 BPM is 5K territory for me. I expected the heart rate to go up but not as high as it did. I believe the point of the workout is to push hard like at the end of the race when you want to shave that last 40-60 seconds off which is pretty big when you consider it. If you look at the jog home I wasn't really able to pick up the speed which is another reason I think I was better off cutting out the second 2 T. I had damn near nothing left other than a hobble back home. I even told myself I wasn't allowed to stop at 15 miles and the workout ends when I'm actually at home.  The funny thing was my BIL noticed how tired I was after a shower (and me saying I'm tired) and said something along the lines of "yeah, you were gone for like an hour. How long did your run?" "More like 2 hours and 1 minute. This is why I can't have nice things like friends." I'm glad I did it. I was a little afraid of doing it and not knowing exactly how uncomfortable I'd feel running 8 seconds slower than 10K race pace (which I'm using for training paces) after doing 10 miles. It was eye opening from abilities to strength to sheer will/determination/perserverence and I'm sure when I hammer out the last 2 miles of Chicago I'll be remembering how I did this before and I know there is another gear in there for about 15 minutes. It's always 15 minutes with me for some reason too. 7:00 pace for 2 miles....15 minutes. 6:00 pace for 3 miles...15 minutes. 4:00 1,000m repeats four times....15 minutes.

The M pace is right about where I should be, I think, for being in the second 6 weeks of the training plan (VDOT 49) and if you removed the T miles it's pretty much a Hanson's Thursday workout (1.5-3 mi w/u, 8M + 10 seconds, 1.5-3 mi c/d) which was probably as comfortable but also worked to build confidence for my last marathon. It is a little bit of a confidence boost to see M pace for 8 miles after so many miles last week. Doing last nights workout and thinking of the Hanson's workout was a little bit of a pat on the back that training was going well even with missing 1-2 weeks because of smoke and some bad workouts in the beginning. Hanson's peaked the M pace work at 10 miles plus warm up and cool down (max 16 miles) which is how I assumed the point of the T miles was/is to simulate pushing it at the finish line. I'm not sure I could actually push that hard in a marathon for 4 miles though. It's quite possible the 2T is closer to 10 minutes like max keeps telling us whenever we talk about being mortals doing elite training.

Almost done with my weekly mileage. I have to move Sunday's workout to Saturday. 3E + 12M + 2E. I'm at the point in my original plan where I'd be doing this at actual goal marathon pace. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Mostly because it seems early to be running at GMP and I can't recall ever doing it in training before. The training run is a major reason I'm trying to finish up my weekly mileage and have Friday off BUT I'd lose my 12 day streak that has more miles in it than my 14 day streak.

TL;DR Marathon training is hard. You get training runs in that boost confidence that come after training runs that destroy confidence. I'm running a lot this week.

pj I could call some friends who went to college in Chico, or family, if you wanted to know of some things to do other than visit Sierra Nevada. IF you're REALLY bored with a day off you could check out the Oroville Dam being rebuilt. It's about an hour East of you. It got DESTROYED around February and the city/town was in danger of being flooded. It's the tallest dam in the US and my grandfather helped a bulldozer up the face of it using a tow truck when they built it.120 NON STOP railcars for something like 3 years when it was built. If you're still here in December you could check out CIM. If you want to be super redneck you could check out dirt track racing in Red Bluff. Clear Lake might be a nice getaway if you're in to that kind of thing.

Everyone on this thread should convert "1 mile T" to "5 min at T".  Then the work/rest ratio is about right and the workouts become more doable.  This is buried somewhere in Daniels but it's critical for non-elite runners otherwise the work portions are just too long.

The sense of reason...from a guy who runs 100 miles then runs another 80 2 weeks later and calls himself the Duke of Bad Judgement. I don't know why anyone doesn't pay attention to him. Why we keep ignoring him is beyond my comprehension.

Clear lake, uh, yeah. Speaking of things being destroyed...

(Fun fact, I left Maryland heading for Upper lake and the rangers station there and made it all the way to Minnesota before checking in and realizing the station was closed, the town was evacuated, and the largest fire in California history* was burning directly between there and my barracks where I was supposed to live).

edit, oh and willows has a raceway.  They do a 25 Hour race apparently, which is like a 24 Hour race, but one better.

keen I hadn't thought of the 5:1 because I know nothing like it. I would probably be better off listening to max about 5 minutes is 1 mile. I might have been able to do 20 minutes of T work with 2 minute intervals.

Jmac I don't USUALLY worry about E pace. It was just feeling like a 10:00 pace seemed almost like I should be walking but it would have taken longer to get home. I default with the "50-100% of rest" for I training I learned from Hanson's. Mostly because it's easy to remember and for my paces it's usually easy to do the math.

Smoke...hope it clears out for those affected. It sucks BUT I'll say it won't hurt you to take a few days off and just not run if it's in the "Unhealthy" range. I wouldn't do anything more than an hour if it's "Unhealthy for Sensitive Groups" if you roll back to the beginning of this month when I was choking on it. 150-200 is where you can start feeling ash on you during a run and you start to feel different after being out side just walking for 10 minutes. Red eyes, itchy skin, dry/scratchy throat, etc.

I need to do 2.3ish miles I am slightly tempted to do them around 10:00 just because I'll have my whole lunch to sit around and do nothing. Should I be the weird guy running laps while everyone is walking?

Well hello!!

Brew - looks like things are looking good for Chicago?

Oregon - I think I stayed at the host hotel when I did CIM but not sure? I basically tagged along with friends. Most hotels around a marathon have shuttles and make it pretty easy.

Ace - your workouts look great!! Way to really keep improving.

Well, my calf is STILL an issue - I took three weeks off and then made it 1.5 miles and it started hurting so I stopped promptly. Maybe I'm just going to have to come back REALLY slow.. which is hopefully going to be REALLY slow since I'm pregnant again and things are looking good, so I obviously hope that works out. Frustrated about the running but I do have an appt with a PT next week and may try a chriopractor that does dry needling. I'm so desperate I'm going to hit up the elliptical next week.. so far I've just been sticking with yoga.  The air AQI has been iffy here as well, and since I'm pregnant I don't run on anything but "healthy" days, so that restricts a lot of outdoor activities anyway.

I'll try to stick around a bit more I'm just really frustrated that I haven't been able to run much since June I even gave up heels which is HUGE.

katia They're pointing towards a favorable outcome. wait.....wtf?!?!?! pregnant again? You're telling us here prior to the social medias?!?!?!?! HOLY FAWK WE'RE IMPORTANT!!!

keen yeah there is a 3/4ish mile loop a fair number of people do twice a day. Sometimes if it's hot or cold there are less. I'mcurrently in a 5:1 don't blow up on the boss:keep your job mode.

I really enjoy getting work review, corrected, re-reviewed, then things not mentioned in the first correction are now needed to be corrected. Yeah...because you can't get me everything you want changed the first time. Literally want to use the same phrases to them that they use to me. Oh and nothiing is actually WRITTEN DOWN IN AN SOP. It's all just verbal, or non-verbal, communication. How hard is it to say everything...ah never mind. work sucks so I applied for another lab job. Hopefully I get this one (County again, lots of background checks, etc.) because I'm at the point of "i don't care anymore" and "I'm going to go above my boss to show how it's a little more 60/40 than 50/50."

katia: Congrats!! That's exciting news! I hope the calf improves soon. I did some dry needling a while back for my hip. They did 5-8 needles in my rectus femoris muscle and tendon. Probably did it 6-8 times. Not exactly comfortable, but seemed to help.  I felt great the couple days afterwards. It seemed to last longer than cupping or active release.

Brew/Keen: If you guys are doing math to figure out your breathing, you're working too hard in my opinion.

Had to work the Saturday clinic today, so pushed tomorrow's long run/workout to tomorrow. I have 2-3 E, 8 at 6:30ish pace, 2-3 easy. I have a love hate relationship with this run. I LOVE that I'm not running 18+ miles, but if that tempo in the middle isn't going well, it's a miserable day. We'll see how it goes.

I've reduced my alcohol consumption for the last couple months of training. I typically do this. It's not a drastic change. I go from 5-7 drinks per week to 0-2. Last night my wife and I made a couple drinks to sit on the porch in fall-ish weather. I made an old fashioned for me and a G&T for her. Woke up with a splitting headache for this morning's run. So, I guess the lesson for me is I need to drink regularly or not at all. Tough choice. 

I forgot this little note from my trail race a couple weeks ago. They had a kid's mile before our race. My kids watched it, but afterwards my oldest daughter, who is 4, asked if she could run the next race!