Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Pace Prophet
Congratulations Dwave!
And you too, PJ, though you finished out of the money-equivalent. We have a lot of races here where only the top overall M and F get prizes, though considering we're talking 50 people total that's not completely unreasonable...except when you're old like me.
Oregon - trying to remember what this "rain" you mention is.
Rozz - I'm with Dad, I don't want company on my runs. We have a running club which is worth joining ($15/year) even if you don't do the group runs, because you get $1 off beer at several of our local brewpubs. I like doing their track workouts but don't do the other group runs.
RLK - was there any snow? I know the few storms have tracked farther north. I've basically given up on my season pass and am mountain biking instead. It's kind of boggling how dry the trails are, and mid-50s in midday, even hit 61 a couple of days ago.
Mother of Cats
dwave 20-30 minute tempo sounds painful. Is it around HM pace and not 5K pace? Asking for a friend.
There's a million definitions of "tempo", but most seem to default to either "run 20 minutes at the pace you could hold for about an hour" or "run 1/3rd of the distance you could hold at that pace" so....5K at 15K-10 mile pace, 4 miles at half-marathon pace, etc. By any definition, you would never do 20-30 minutes at 5K pace unless your 5K time was significantly slower than 30 minutes.
FB - I'm the absolute last person to be asking about indoor track. Never done it, never will.
PJ - I considered doing that 5K, but thought I wanted to race on Saturday instead. Had I known you were doing it, that might have shifted my decision.
My week: 37 miles on land+34 in the pool. Looked like:M: yoga and 8.5 "miles" pool-running.T: 12 miles, including 3200 in 12:50 (6:28/6:22) and then 4x800 in 3:02 each. Also injury prevention work and recovery swimming.W: 7 miles very easy (9:52) plus drills, strides, DIY yoga. Sports massage at night.
Th: Upper body weights/core and 9 "miles" pool-running.F: 4 miles very easy (9:01) plus DIY yoga.
Sa: 14 miles - 3 mile warm-up, 10K in 40:36, and then 5 mile cool-down plus recovery swimming.Su: 16.5 "miles" pool-running.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
hey all -
I caught the Millrose games yest... always cool to see real runners up close.
nice racing pj and dw!
nice speed workouts dad
hey to jimE and max (if you're out there...)
my week (got a little "runner's knee" nagging)
total = 34
.. mid-50s in midday, even hit 61 a couple of days ago.
And in comparison ... just finished two hour run in 33 degrees and steady drizzle.
PJ ~ Most club races are extremely top heavy results wise. Especially as you get older.
Rovatti ~ Was wondering if you were there; comes across on TV as an enthusiastic crowd.
My week:
M) 7.5 w/ strides
Tu) 7.5
W) 12 w/ 4 sets of 3-2-1 hill repeats
F) 7.5
Sa) 11 w/ 5x1K and 5x300m
Su) 14 hilly
Total: 67
Nice 10k Dwave. I’m surprised how often I find myself running alone in a race, big or small, it seems to happen at some point.
PJ: nice racing to you as well!. That's a fairly hilly 5k.
In regards to coaching/pricing it sounds like I’m on the more expensive side, but my coach plans every run including paces and race plans. One of the largest benefits for me is he will adjust the training schedule as soon as sometime comes up to derail the set plan (i.e. - illness, travel, etc). I also like not having to plan anything, I just follow directions. So far, so good. I’m getting faster. I get 3 weeks of training at a time. It’s $75/month for “online”. This includes training plans and certain group runs. Or $125/month for personal training which includes 4-5 in person coached runs/week (either 5am, 8am, or 5pm 4 days a week then a weekend run). I’ve done both depending on what family life is like.
FB: my dog maxes out around 10:00 mile, so he runs with my wife instead. However, she noticed when running with him her L knee gets sore. Must be associated with holding the leash. Sorry about the crash, hope you and the pup are okay. My mom broke her knee cap several years back when running with her dog!
RLK: how was the skiing? We haven’t been in a couple years, I miss it!!
Rozzie: keep up the good work, nice progression in mileage.
Dad: you …. are …. fast! When are you racing again?
Brew: we LOVE the grandparents, but none of them are good at following “rules”, but maybe that’s what they’re here for. We typically go through a 48 hr grandparent detox period after they leave town. The kids have to remember we have a routine and can’t eat cookies all day long.
Elizabeth: are you lurking? I hope all is well.
Felt good today after a tough run yesterday. With my current training we're increasing the long run every 2 weeks, with a 12-14 mile long run in between. I feel like I'm recovering better and can attack my workouts a little more. Recovery is happening faster, which I attribute partly to increasing my total calories.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jan 29, 2018 thru Sunday, Feb 04, 2018
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Resident Millennial
brew- what kind of coach is $475/month?!? never heard of one over like 150.
brew / ace / ilana- the snow is decent, but definitely "behind schedule" this time of year in terms of accumulation and still a few areas of exposed rocks. there has been a storm system for the past few days but it does seem to be concentrated a little north (I'm at Keystone). supposed to dump on monday night, of course, because that's when we leave.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
FB: No, I haven't had an MRI, but I did stop in to see my PT yesterday, just for a chat to see if he thought he could help, or if I should go to a doctor. Given my symptoms, he thinks just some PT is necessary, so that's where I'm going to start on Monday. Given what he said about my symptoms, it reminded me that the incline trainers I have access to were acting up around the time I started having the knee issue. There were one or two occasions where the machine when into emergency stop mode unexpectedly...so, a sudden and unexpected braking. Makes me wonder if I was planting my left foot when that happened, and tweaked something. I somewhat jokingly asked him if he could have me fixed up for Black Canyon (which is only 13 days away at this point), and he thought for a few seconds and said, "Yeah, I think so." Not what I was expecting to hear.
Nice training weeks from a lot of you. I'm jealous. My week...
M: 1:10 elliptical
T: 0:50 elliptical
W: Rest
T: 4M @ 16:10, 2465' elevation
F: 5.5M @ 16:35, 3455' elevation
S: 1:30 elliptical
S: 5.5M @ 16:24, 3880
Total: 15M, 9800'. I tried mixing in a little running on Friday, and am now adding some very short uphill runs (longest today was 0.07M, probably 1-1.5M total) mixed with hiking, most of it at 12-15% incline.
Duke Of Bad Judgment
So far behind... Won't even try. Just chime in on a couple things.
Heart rate in marathons: We've talked about this a couple times over the years. There seem to be two typical patterns - flat for the whole race or steadily increasing for all/most of the race. I do the latter. I noticed it in one PR race and have used it for pacing in my next two PR races. Start at ~131, increase one bpm/mile, top out in the high 150s (the SmaxHRmax is somewhere low 160's - I'm ancient). If you figure out your pattern, it can be very useful in races.
Weather in Boise this year: Thank you Jim's Kat for guaranteeing that it will not be warm on race day! "Always warm in The Village" - hah! The problem is it won't be 40, gray, and slight tailwind, it will be 35, pouring and 25mph wind headwind. Thanks!
Darkwave: I've learned not to drink basically anything that morning until the bus ride is almost over. There's plenty of time to hydrate the day before and after you get off the bus. My first bus ride there was very... long and uncomfortable.
New folks: Welcome!
Me: I'm busy because of deaths in the family, chairing the board of a small non-profit/thinktank in Seattle, fixing things in our house that should have been fixed decades ago, starting a very small business coaching (a few) runners, and a couple other things. A lot of stuff landed at once, some of it good.
And for the new folks, I do the occasional marathon but prefer long trail races. Long doesn't mean what you probably think it does.
Nice job Darkwave in your 10K! same goes for PepperJack on the 5K
No coach for me... A running club could be far helpful for me specially for intervals which I never hit them right.
Long runs, on the contrary, have frequently become a social thing which I enjoy more that just plodding the miles myself.
PJ, Dwave - nice short racing for this time of year, especially during marathon training. Not sure where you are PJ, but ... it's cold for 5Ks where I live! Top 10 finishes should be enjoyed, not examined closely.
Coaching - I drew a lot of benefit from a coach in my first year of marathon running. Never had trouble motivating myself, and I'd read all the books & had excellent coaches in my youth. But it was worth the $50/month to have someone checking my late 30s form & times and helping me pick paces and LR distances. Since then I've run in volunteer coached programs that go 3-5 months and cost $100, which covers long run aid station supplies & a singlet or hoodie. You get a training program & routes. There's usually six or so people running my pace, and a few of them have a dozen Bronson marathons and an RRCA certification or two. And lots of peer advice. But, it's not quite the same.
I've discovered a new kind of pain following these trail long runs - upper inner thigh (adductor?) pain. It's a real treat! I've had it after long runs in the trail mileage ramp up, though it kicked up a lot this week. After Saturday's voyage, which was really quite pleasant in the actual event, pain started right after stopping and worsened all afternoon. By evening, hard to get comfortable and rolling over in bed was very painful. Running was out of the question yesterday. This morning it was dull and perfectly bilateral so I did an easy 4 on the treadmill. I'm not sure if it's the trail, the Hokas, a lack of moral strength ...
Problem Child
Rozzie I have a failed marriage AND a well behaved dog. I can walk him off leash most of the time and he comes when he's yelled at.
RLK Matt Pendola. This is who was recommended to my mother when she asked a local running store. I laughed out loud and told her his price.
A-A-RON: yeah good thing he isn't old enough for cookies. I thought it was the "I'm here to help out" visit but apparently not. I just kept my mouth shut because I know she will do it anyways. Maybe I'll be cruel and adopt the policy of "If you don't follow our rules you can't see them." I doubt that would stick.
DWAVE 4 miles at HM pace sounds good. It's harder when I don't know any paces. Also I agree with your comment on "why I run" and training for races. A RB apparently asked "what's up with all the intervals" to another RB and I said "did you tell him I'm training for a race?" They're the "I run for cheap exercise" kind of thing. At "current fitness level" that's 5k @7:11, 4 miles at 7:30. Narrows it down. The 5K plan you sent allows breaking it up (2x10-15 minutes, 2-3 min jog), but they only have the tempo run closer to race day and only once every two weeks. Race is about a month out so maybe next week I'll go for 7:30 miles. Downside is they'd mostly be downhill or flat.
Max IF, I, EVER, do another trail race I'm hiring you. I've contemplated AR50 but it's a WSQ and you and I BOTH know where that leads. Hope all is going well. Sounds like you're busier than usual. I did think about you when I told a RB, who wants to do a 55K, when he is older his two daughters can tell their husbands about their dad's belt buckle collection. It seemed to lighten him up and give him a "dad smile" thinking of the future. What is going on in Boise?
ilana $15 for $1/pints. TAKE MY MONEY! I'd have that membership paid off pretty quick...or not at all. I don't visit many local watering holes for pints.
My Week:
Speed intervals went well. This week (4x4 minute @6:30) might be tough. After 1:30 I was KIND of hanging on but I feel like that's the point of intervals. Push hard enough each time to not die. RB didn't enjoy it but he should do 6:45 pace MAX. Friday hills surprised me. 55 seconds is just about all I had for this hill. I couldn't imagine Dad's 3 minute repeats. 90 seconds might be rough. Both finding a hill and completing them. My heart rate is WAY off. No way is it 130 max for a 55 second run uphill at 6:15 pace. I tried focusing on foot strike more and keeping an even pace. Second and third intervals started too fast. Saturday I thought I was meeting a local RB for a group run but he never showed. Goal was 8:30/mi or slower. I teamed up with the wrong group but it felt good. I tried slowing down to 8:30s but just couldn't. The hill in the middle SUCKED after Friday's repeats. I added a little on (round numbers) and figured I'd get in a 6 mile easy shake out run Sunday. Didn't happen. A combination of beer, lack of sleep, and a 5:00am wake up call (NeRP) combined for flu like symptoms, including wanting to nap all day. I was on the couch all day and ate 3 eggs, 2 brownies, and some chips all day. Feeling normal today. I was hoping for 45ish last week after Sunday's run but alas, I must move on.
Weekly Summary Monday, Jan 29, 2018 thru Sunday, Feb 04, 2018
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
pie man
Duke - it was 32ish degrees with no wind. For me, personality, that's just about the perfect racing temperature. It also was before the snow/sleet/very cold rain that came later (same stuff D ran in, I'm in Maryland). I was out in that, also.
ilana - saw a picture from someone I follow on Instagram today, looked perfect.
Brew - what's that WSQ race? Is it not full?
dwave - funny thing, I thought it was on Saturday when I registered, I might not have signed up if I realized and did the BRRC trail race instead. Another BRRC race coming up (Cupids crush, cannot rule out doing that one too).
Rov - would like to go to the Milrose someday. I put in for NY this year and I really can't afford it. Which means this is the year I get in, right?
So I'm putting in some weird looking weeks lately.
M - 8.5
T - 8.5 (3 mile fartlek, only 1 other brave would was out there in dark and wind and he's quicker than I so it was solo, minute on/minute off witching to 30 on/30 off after 2 miles. Overall pace was 7:15ish)
W - 6 easy
T - 6 treadmill (trying to my money's worth at the gym)
F - off, going to go with scheduled as a taper
S - 5 easy, shake out
S - 3.1 @ 6:20 , 2.9 wu/cd
S2 - "worlds worst cool down" aka the Tavern run covering 14+ miles from 12:30 until game time. In chunks of 1-2 miles down the spine of Baltimore ending with a run home during the 4th quarter. Many stops to hydrate along the way...
Total - 54, I think
We might be getting locally famous for our shenanigans
https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/960246779378917380
11:11 3,000 (recent)
OMR - that certainly sounds hopeful from the PT. Though I'd be having an oh sh!t moment: "you mean I gotta run that thing after all?"
Nice to see appearances from Ilana, Smax, and Rovatti
Duke - fun to see you running all the same places that I do.
Brewing - your titles crack me up. Was the difficulty in staying 8:30 or slower because of lack of company at that pace?
As for me, I.am.sick. Ugh. Hit Sunday afternoon with force, which makes me think I was fighting it off on Saturday morning, which explains why I felt so deadlegged and slow during the race. Or alternately I picked it up at the race. I find that hard to believe, just because I don't think most viruses can survive in 14 degrees.
The worst was last night, and it seems to be easing, so hopefully gone in another day or two. I'm taking today completely off, and tomorrow will likely be in the pool. My breathing is fine right now - it's just sinus pain, sore throat, fatigue, and achy shoulders. But I'm worried that if I go for a run, even an easy one, before this eases I'll end up with an asthma flare. Much safer to stick to gentle pool exercise or full rest for another day or two. The fortunate thing is that this is well timed not to interfere with Botulism training too much.
[answer to obvious questions: 1 - I did get the flu shot; 2 - this ain't the flu, just a head cold]
Pretty annoying to have to call in sick to work on the Monday after a Superbowl, just like everyone else, when I didn't actually watch the Superbowl...
Stopping by again (twice in two days!) to drop off my week. I'm mostly training for Belogorsk, but I realized this weekend that I also need to start training for Black Canyon (on Feb 17). My main goal there is to not spend the last few miles stumbling into OMR because I'm so cold. That's how I finished last year, and while it was a compelling experience I doubt doing it again could live up to the thrill of last year. From reading a post above, I'm now hoping this year is different because OMR has finished way ahead of me and not because he DNS'd.
Monday, Jan 29, 2018 thru Sunday, Feb 04, 2018
Cobra Commander Keen
Wow, lots of movement here again. Perhaps I need to start checking in over the weekends.
Rozzie - $250 for the training group?? The LRS around here charges $119-$159 depending on how early you sign up (had to look this up). Supported/coached LRs, plus 2x coached workouts per week. That is "just" for a training cycle, since there are really only two "major" marathons in Oklahoma (spring and fall).
DWave - Saw the 10k on Strava, off to read the RR. I think it's awesome how individualized your training is.
FB - I typically just run away from dogs. I've had varying levels of success with this. *rubs small scar on hip*
Ilana - Hi! Nice pic. It's strange that I'm somewhat envious of your weather. It's really dry here as well, but it has been cold. Max mid-40's a lot, some days sub-freezing all day. 12* this morning! Hey, it's cold for me!...
Dad - Solid work.
Ace - Good week.
Max - Long time no see. Killer week. Surely you have time for a good training session or two, plus maybe a tune-up marathon before Black Canyon, right??
Duke - Nice week as well.
Brew - Good week. Finding solid hills to run is a bit of a challenge here. I like the treadmill for that, but the major downside (for me) is not being able to run the downhill to keep the quads used to it. Care to share your wife's waffle/pancake recipe??
PJ - Nice job on the race. 32* is definitely about perfect for a short race for me as well.
Lazy Cutback week for me ahead of officially starting my first official training plan today. It's interesting how having a solid plan seems to add drive/focus to my outlook to my race for the spring. If this plan works out I may have to try another for a fall race, or see about some local coaching options.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4