Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
FB - did you do any long tempos (~6 miles within a slower run)? Or any races?
Nope. Sorry.
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
omr- i've been bad at following along, sorry. what happens on april 6th? sounds like we've got some good Botswana performances cooking up!! looking at you eliz, dwave, kk. hopefully The Weather Gods are on track for that plan, too.
sounds like we've got some good Botswana performances cooking up!! looking at you eliz, dwave, kk. hopefully The Weather Gods are on track for that plan, too.
rlk: knee surgery. and i agree with you about some good performances in Bemidji.
ilana: Nice to see you with a bit more mileage. Hmm...I wonder how my students would react if I showed up in running tights...of course, I'd probably need to get a larger size or just have flab hanging out the edges. ;-)
Ilana ~ Woo-hoo! 25 miles!
FB ~ Your data sucks! That said, that 18 miler suggests staying under 8:00 (3:30 pace) for a long time is well within you. If you are good w/ BQ-5, just treat it like a LR: enjoy the crowd, take things leisurely -- don't worry about pace except to avoid going too fast (~7:45 on downhill miles), get plenty to drink at water points, and when you crest HH, let er' rip and have a blast passing a 1000 people or so.
Ilana, most of the info can be found on various posts and replies on facebook, and they have admitted that they had to change the course in one spot due to construction. And right at this spot is where it seems like the distance was added, and that's also where the mile markers started being way off. And as I mentioned, after this spot the timng mats were suddenly off by half a mile as well compared to their official numbers. But as of yet they have not admitted that the course was long.
I know courses usually measure long and try to take that into account with my pacing and planning, and experienced this in Paris as well. But there the course measured about 0.2 miles long at the end, and it was very consistent that at my pace it resulted in about 5 seconds extra every mile. But they also place the mile markers accurately in big road races. So if this had been a gradual buildup of difference between my watch and the mile markers/timing mats/etc, I might have been able to buy it, but here it more or less came in one chunk.
Also, good to see you're on your way back! 25 miles is a good step in the right direction.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Lovely RRs, ace and rune! A long marathon sounds so infuriating, rune. Did your friend get the BQ-5? Will Botswana even take the results from the race?
Still need to read DkW's and max's.
kk - I'm no expert, but I agree that a PR is within reach for you. Of course, weather is a huge issue. Looking forward to seeing you, DkW and e78 kill it! max - good luck with getting better before the race. anyone else running it?
fb - with so much experience, I imagine you have a good idea of what's possible, but I agree with dad that that 18 miler below 8 min pace is a good sign. And I certainly hope we get similar weather to the one you got while running in Paris. From what I've seen, it has been bad a few times recently. I'll start monitoring the weather soon
omr - good luck on April 6! Hope all goes smoothly!
ilana - glad to hear you made it over 25 mpw and speed is slowly coming back
dad - fantastic week! SC - great week too! And of course, CK and e78, as usual
Hi everyone else! About 10 days left for Paris, enjoying taper for now. A fast and experienced marathoner from the club here suggested that I walk every single water station (every 5 km). I am seriously considering this, as in my last marathon in Berlin I started getting side stitches twice right after trying to drink on the run. Also, it seems like a good way to break up the race. Any experiences with this? Do you recommend it?
Have a great rest of the week everyone!
5K - 18:03 (5.18) | 10K - 37:58 (2.18) | HM - 1:20:45 (9.18) | FM: 2:57:59 (10.18)
Rune, rlk -- that's really too bad. A bunch of runners must have missed PRs and BQs. Blah. Wonder what the RD will do.
Katia -- we were shooting for 3+ years, and ended up with 4 1/2, so we went through everything serially. Diapers, pre-school, high school, sports, college, etc. For us, we got to enjoy everything twice. Our girls have always got along well (no competition), and they are close as young adults. We are older parents (DW was 43 when she had DD2), and we had a great time when the girls were home. I still miss it -- so enjoy!
Dad/Ilana -- yep. Crap data. That's why I'm asking the experts.
Pesto -- the tricky part is that I got sick (celiac) and could barely run at all, so I don't really know whose body I have right now. I don't have my experienced body (that one, I could predict), but I'm stronger than my sick body. But I don't know how much stronger (or if I'm going to spend that last 10K in the portapotties). It's a little funky.
Stopping at water stops -- I've never done it, and have gotten good a drinking on the fly. But I usually don't get stitches.
Gel question -- I don't ever drink or eat when I run. Should I still take a goo or two during the race. It a balance of energy vs. possible stomach issues. What do you think?
Mother of Cats
Stopping at water stops: I run with a small handheld bottle. When that's empty, I'll refill it at stations - carrying the handheld and refilling it means fewer stops than if I was relying on cups.
When I do stop at a water station, I've found it better to shuffle jog than to walk. It's much easier to shift back into marathon pace gear, and I lose less time at the stop.
Pesto - what is the basis for your friend's advice? Walking is better for the side stitch issue? For myself, I can totally see gulping water down causing a stitch, regardless of whether I was running or walking at the time. That's why I like the handheld - instead of gulping water, I can sip it regularly.
FB - My personal philosophy is to take as many gels as you can handle, starting early. The marathon is all about managing one's fuel tank, and the longer you can keep that tank topped off (or later, above "E") the better. But, stomach issues obviously complicate this.
(how the heck are you asking this question when you've already gone sub-3? )
My belated week:
40 miles of running and 11 "miles" of pool-running.M: Yoga and 7 "miles" of pool-running.T: 9.5 miles, including track workout of 2000, 4x800 in 8:03, 3:05, 3:06, 3:07, 3:04). Also recovery swimming.W: 6.5 miles very easy (8:58) plus drills (no strides, due to snow/slick conditions)Th: 4 "miles" pool-running, light upper body weights/core, and DIY yoga.F: 7 miles, including 1 mile at between 10M-HM pace (6:22)Sa: DIY yoga
Su: 2.5 warm-up, half-marathon in 85:56, 1.5 cooldown. Also recovery swimming.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Pesto: I'm with Dwave on this one. I carry a small handheld bottle (12oz) and sip from that whenever I need to and refill at water stops. I do have to slow just a bit to refill and if it's all the way empty it takes two cups. This is obviously easier at smaller marathons, so not sure about Paris. Sometimes stopping for even 10 seconds feels great, but sometimes if I stop, I just want to stop running and take a nap. So, with that said you're probably back at square one. Sorry.
Legs feeling much more normal today. Will go for some longer walks tonight and tomorrow with maybe a little jogging. I wonder if I was more sore this time due to not running the previous week?
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Pesto - I just checked the results and it turns out my buddy ran exactly 3:25:00, so he met his goal. We were even at 11 miles at 7:42 watch pace, and he sped up a hair and finished with a 7:38 overall watch pace. His measured distance was 26.87.
Also, regarding Paris Marathon, if they are doing things the same way as in 2016 they are actually giving out small water bottles at the aid stations every 5k. I took advantage of that when I ran the race so you might want to check and see if they are providing any details there. And depending on what your bathroom routines are, I would suggest you get to your corral with plenty of time to spare, and then get in a line for the portapotty inside the corral right away if you think need to go #2. I did that as well in 2016 and lucked out and used the last sheets of toilet paper in there with the start still 15-20 minutes away.
Cobra Commander Keen
Max - Speedy recovery, and thanks for the RR. What's the next step after the lobotomy? A 15+ mile LR?
Ilana - Congrats on the progress!
Pesto - Have you thought about trying the Geetah straw? I first heard of this from Ilana in the RWOL days, but outside of some cached pages I'm too lazy to search through now those mentions are all gone.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Resident Millennial
regarding Paris Marathon, if they are doing things the same way as in 2016 they are actually giving out small water bottles at the aid stations every 5k.
hoorayyyyyy "disposable" plastic waterbottles
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/climate/great-pacific-garbage-patch.html
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Pace Prophet
FB - if the practical BQ is your goal, that's what you should aim at. I handwaved the last 15 of your 18 into a 15M race and came up with 3:32:30, so 3:30-3:35 ought to be totally reasonable. And if you blow up, well, bad data. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
pie man
Has anyone heard from Rovatti recently? I actually sent him a message a few weeks ago, if he checks now it will be out of date and consequently a little confusing.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Duke Of Bad Judgment
FB: I may be on a very similar Biddeford plan. If I was going into this healthy I'd be aiming mid 3:20's. As it is, I'd love to get my BQ out of the way and maybe... maybe... my hamstring can handle 8:12-ish pace which would bring me in around 3:35. Re: gels, the research says taking ~250 calories/hour (or more if you can stand it) improves performance in endurance events. You can train your stomach to some degree. Also, it's not clear that a stomach that is a little unhappy affects performance in a negative way. Finally, research also says that just the taste of calories is enough to improve performance (the swish-and-spit Gatorade study), so the next time I get late in a race and think "gawd no... I can't stand another gel now" I'm going to try taking tiny sips.
Interestingly, the taste of water is apparently similar to the taste of calories. I'm reading Alex Hutchinson's Endure right now, and he talks about a study where participants had a tube stuck down their nose into the stomach. In one study variation (cyclists doing some spin bike thing, getting warm and thirsty), they pumped water through the tube into the stomach - no tasting water, no performance improvement. In another variation, the participants drank some water which was then vacuumed back out of the stomach - performance improvement due to tasting water even if it didn't actually rehydrate them. More Central Governor coolness. If the brain thinks you are taking care of yourself, it lets you keep pushing.
Problem Child
Arvin’s: what is your foam rolling? You have various distances as well as marking it as multiple types of workouts. Are you seriously rolling close to a half mile because I’d consider that a painful workout if it was an out and back.
KK: I turn 30 again for the third or fourth time this year and I feel old. I’m mixed on working on #2 because it would be awesome to have them both in school BUT having one able to help out would be handy. My nephew is almost 4 and his sister is 2 months older than NeRP. Mom has him trained to help out from what I understand. They’re also a family of 5. I’m sure the other parents of 3-4 will provide benefits. Good luck on #2 and that April race. Maybe that PR will bring out some good.
NeRP
P is feeling better. I started feeling sick. We leave manana and he starts daycare Monday. I have some vehicle maintence (I don’t want to hear about it RLK) to do before heading back to work. I’m already exhausted from vacation to think about doing work, then I think of how I have to go BACK to work. Uhh. It’s hard adulting sometimes.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22