2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 215 times)

DavePNW


    Mike -  Of course most people would be thrilled with sub-3 but I know you expected a lot better. Sorry you had a rough day. My tl;dr summary of your report: marathons are hard. Everything has to go right to have a good day, only one thing has to go wrong to have a bad one. Or a bunch of seemingly minor things adding up; maybe that was the case for you. You were kind of joking about breakfast, but I wouldn’t skip my standard pre-race nutrition regardless of whether I felt hungry. And yeah I think it’s pretty common for improvements to come in fits & starts, over a period of years. Marathoning is a frustrating hobby.

    Dave

    Marky_Mark_17


      Steve in 1:27:34. Looks like he started conservatively and sped up in the second half. Good result after a pretty disrupted few months training.

      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      * Net downhill course

      Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

      Up next: Still working on that...

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

        1:27 is a great day!

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 53.37 

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        CalBears


          Mikkey is back! That's the best thing ever. I hope he will challenge me again and I will be able to run sub 2:59 when I am 59 this year and sub 3 when I am 60 next year 

           

          I was not shocked that flavio ran sub 3 marathon, but I was very very surprised - because it came out of nowhere Smile I think that is the highlight of the year, kudos to flavio for his perseverance - for overcoming all the weird things that were happening to him during all those marathons Smile

           

          Congrats to all the Boston runners too!

           

          I am sorry I was missing for so long, I think I am going to slowly return to more running soon as I hope to run Santa Rosa in August (without goal - just do the best I can) and then CIM with a challenging goal of sub 2:59 or at least sub 3. I am currently running like 15-20 miles a week and really really enjoying that. I am into cardio strength training too now for almost 2 months, the group class in 24/7 Fitness gym I am going to. Really enjoy that 1 hour workout - not targeting muscle growth, targeting well being and feeling good and not fragile. My wish is to stay consistent and not be that, not be fragile I meant Smile

           

          DK - I read your message about missing me Smile - I really appreciate it - I hope not to leave this thread for that long Smile It just when I am out of loop for intense training, I do not feel I am eligible to give any advice or feedback.

           

          JMac - every time I read your messages about lost motivation, I smile. Kindly smile. I know what you are talking about. I used to be like this when I started seriously training. The only difference is that you started at 25 (?) and I started at 45. So, you are at a huge advantage Smile I mean... I know it feels fruitless to run or going to a gym without setting a PR, but it is not. I know you probably won't understand it until you are in your 50s, because you are in your 30s and feel great and everything is ahead of you still. Seriously. But... One day when I was 57, I stopped running for a few months... And I then I started to run again later and that's when I realized it's not about PR anymore that is important - having a good sleep, jumping from a bench in a sauna (not crawling from it like an old man), enduring one hour intense workout together with 20-30 years olds - it's a joy, feeling healthy, feeling energized... Maybe I simplify it too much, maybe I think regular men of my age should feel worse than I feel? Smile Ha-ha - anyway - I am still glad I am motivated by all that I just said - and not thinking like you - but I still envy you because you are young Smile Lol...

           

          Mikkey - get back to competitive running - you are the only one who can motivate me (Fishy is a good guy, but he is too nice Smile. Plus, you bailed on me twice by now - at CIM and and at LA - I came to London to see you but you just bailed... So, you owe me Smile

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          Marky_Mark_17


            mmerkle - yeah I know the feeling... it's a tough one a race that most runners would be stoked with, but still have that nagging sense that it wasn't what you wanted. I've got no doubt marathons are a tougher distance to master. For me personally they don't pass the risk/reward test any more.  I think Dave summed it up pretty well, all I'll add is that definitely everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I'm definitely a 5k to half marathon runner personally.

             

            Decent week in the bag. Had a good weights workout on Monday as well, and kept Fri as a rest day. Legs certainly starting to feel a bit sharper, Tues and Wed were back to back workouts and if anything, the Wed one was the better of the two. Saturday's run included Parkrun in 16:38, as I figured I needed a decent 5k tuneup, having not raced a 5k in ages. I didn't max the effort, and never quite hit the lung-burning depths of 5k pain, I'm saving that joy for a couple of weeks time.  Given also that it was a wet day out there too, I was pretty happy with the result.

             

            5k is a fun distance though. Nice to go for a warm down and not feel like your legs are wrecked.

             

            Weekly for period: From: 15/04/2024 To 21/04/2024

            <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
            in m
            16/04 That run where last week we whinged on Strava and this week the new Ngapipi Bridge is open 9.33 15.02 00:59:56 06:25 03:59 22
            17/04 That run with back to back workouts and perfect weather for it 10.58 17.02 01:07:47 06:24 03:59 32
            18/04 That run where it turns out odd bike guy is actually kinda dodgy 9.95 16.02 01:08:49 06:55 04:18 24
            20/04 That run with a very pink Parkrun 7.47 12.01 00:47:27 06:21 03:57 64
            21/04 That run where you keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel 13.32 21.43 01:33:51 07:03 04:23 219

            Totals: Time: 05:37:50 - 🦅Imperial: 50.65 mi - Metric: 81.49 km

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

            Up next: Still working on that...

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            flavio80


            Intl. correspondent

              MMerkle - We have a lot less control over the result when it comes to a marathon, it seems to me it's pretty much rolling the dice every time you run one, but you only win if it's a 6.

              I reckon time predictor calculators are a lot less useful when it comes to the marathon.
              Also don't let the marathon bullies in your head. There are races at other distances other than 42195m and you can enjoy the other distances too.
              I certainly enjoy the races shorter than 3km much more because I do so much better at them.

               

              Steve - Awesome job, you're now in a much better shape than just 2 years ago, a nice break through!

               

              Calbears - Welcome back, it's good to have you around, you call a spade a spade!
              Thanks for the kudos, it means a lot to me. I took your advice to the heart,  I finally managed to have a boring cycle, and it worked.

               

              me - We're visiting Nantes. Super interesting place. It's curious that this region is called Brittany and not Britain in English, in French they're the same word Bretagne I reckon.

              And I caught some sort of bug this week, so I didn't run yesterday nor today. Just that miserable feeling of being super wrecked for no reason.

              No point in trying my luck.

              Anyway, today the Nantes marathon was happening so naturally we went to watch.

              Several entertaining moments.
              - When the male 1st place was struggling to climb on the podium due to stiff legs

              - When a dude sprinted the last 400m to the finish line, eventually passing the guy ahead of him with 20m to go.

              - And when the first female arrived at 2h58. She looked a bit older, so I looked her up, Nathalie Vasseur, and it turns out SHE'S 58 YEARS OLD!!!!! DAMN!!!!!

               

              Anyway, I'm struggling with motivation too. A few years ago I thought for sure when I lost some weight I'd become way faster, but that didn't happen. PRs are still possible but they seem so far away and unlikely to happen. I've always been very results oriented, so gotta figure out this next chapter. I tried trail running, that was a disaster too. I can't stop running though otherwise I'll balloon pretty quickly and have nefarious health problems.

              I'd really like to win just one race that had a podium. That's impossible in Portugal where you need a sub 29 minutes to win a local hilly 10k, I may have to pay CommanderKeen a visit, it seems races are super slow in his area 😁

              PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

              Tool to generate Strava weekly

              Mikkey


              Mmmm Bop

                 

                 

                Mikkey - get back to competitive running - you are the only one who can motivate me (Fishy is a good guy, but he is too nice Smile. Plus, you bailed on me twice by now - at CIM and and at LA - I came to London to see you but you just bailed... So, you owe me Smile

                 

                Bloody hell, I think I’ll have to pretend that I’m back in serious training again so that you stay motivated!   Seriously though, my ankle isn’t causing me any issues at all now and I’m pleased I didn’t waste £8000 on a private op as it was obviously running and self inflicted (the heel spur pressing into the Achilles and causing the inflammation). I’m going to start running again now that it’s warmer weather here (you can tell I’m getting old by that pathetic sentence) but realistically I don’t think I could get away with more than 50/60mpw average to avoid the same problem coming back so I’d have to accept slower time goals? As you said previously, every single sub3 marathon is special even if it’s not a PR and it gives you that buzz to keep running! I don’t think I’d get any satisfaction from running a 3:10 so I’ll just have to see how things pan out over the summer. I’d love to run a fall marathon in the US and meet up again as that was such a fun evening in London! You’re a great feisty runner, but your personality is even better! 👍

                 

                Steve - Great run! The half is your golden distance and you’re still relatively young and capable of sub1:25. With years of mileage on your legs you can eventually go sub3!  I’m not joking as I think you’ve got the ability so I hope you persevere. 👍

                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                CalBears


                   

                  Bloody hell, I think I’ll have to pretend that I’m back in serious training again so that you stay motivated!   Seriously though, my ankle isn’t causing me any issues at all now and I’m pleased I didn’t waste £8000 on a private op as it was obviously running and self inflicted (the heel spur pressing into the Achilles and causing the inflammation). I’m going to start running again now that it’s warmer weather here (you can tell I’m getting old by that pathetic sentence) but realistically I don’t think I could get away with more than 50/60mpw average to avoid the same problem coming back so I’d have to accept slower time goals? As you said previously, every single sub3 marathon is special even if it’s not a PR and it gives you that buzz to keep running! I don’t think I’d get any satisfaction from running a 3:10 so I’ll just have to see how things pan out over the summer. I’d love to run a fall marathon in the US and meet up again as that was such a fun evening in London! You’re a great feisty runner, but your personality is even better! 👍

                   

                   

                  Bloody hell - I can see you are getting old because you now writing messages like this and writing sentences like the one I marked in bold 

                   

                  Actually I would be pretty happy now running sub 3:10 because I know how still difficult it is. But... you are right, sub 3 is still something special and hopefully I have few of them still in me. But that will be hard - though, I think 50-60 mpw consistent running still might make sub 3 possible - I think I ran that last year - you just need few weeks above that with a longer LR. Think about all those sub 3s you ran before - I do not think all of them were on a big mileage.

                   

                  But as a last resort - you can use magical plan from the famous proven book - Run Less Run Faster - 3 times a week for sub 3 - easy 

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  Mikkey


                  Mmmm Bop

                     

                    Bloody hell - I can see you are getting old because you now writing messages like this and writing sentences like the one I marked in bold 

                     

                    Actually I would be pretty happy now running sub 3:10 because I know how still difficult it is. But... you are right, sub 3 is still something special and hopefully I have few of them still in me. But that will be hard - though, I think 50-60 mpw consistent running still might make sub 3 possible - I think I ran that last year - you just need few weeks above that with a longer LR. Think about all those sub 3s you ran before - I do not think all of them were on a big mileage.

                     

                    But as a last resort - you can use magical plan from the famous proven book - Run Less Run Faster - 3 times a week for sub 3 - easy 

                     

                    Run Less Run Faster 🤡 …I’ve been told that I’m very stubborn over the years…so maybe I should embrace an alternative? 😎

                    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                    DavePNW


                      Steve - nice race! Looking forward to the RR!

                       

                      MMerkle - We have a lot less control over the result when it comes to a marathon, it seems to me it's pretty much rolling the dice every time you run one, but you only win if it's a 6.

                      I reckon time predictor calculators are a lot less useful when it comes to the marathon.
                      Also don't let the marathon bullies in your head. There are races at other distances other than 42195m and you can enjoy the other distances too.
                      I certainly enjoy the races shorter than 3km much more because I do so much better at them.

                       

                       

                      Marathoning is kind of a cult. The cult followers make you feel like you’re missing out if you’re not in it. It’s easy to get sucked in, and hard to get out. And when you fail, you feel like you’re the failure, instead of the logical conclusion that the cult is stupid. I enjoy racing 5k to half more than marathons, and based on all the calculators I’m better at the shorter distances. But I’ve only ever done focused training for marathons, and the others are squeezed in during or between marathon cycles. 

                      Speaking of such things, my week: not bad, glad to be tapering. The 4x1 mile is fewer reps than I’d normally do; it went OK. A slow start as usual, but finished reasonably well. I was happy with the results of my MP workout; I was targeting 7:20, ended up averaging closer to 7:15, and the effort did not feel excessively hard.

                       

                      One week to go! Feeling a few physical niggles, although nothing too problematic; still, glad to have an easy week ahead. It’s too soon to be looking at the weather forecast, but naturally I am anyway, and oh man do I hope it holds.

                       

                      Weekly for period: From: 04/15/2024 To 04/21/2024

                      <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      04/15 Morning Run 6.01 9.67 00:55:57 09:19 05:47 266
                      04/16 Afternoon Run 6.01 9.67 00:53:22 08:53 05:31 246
                      04/17 4 x 1 mile + 3x200m 10.02 16.13 01:27:58 08:47 05:27 164
                      04/18 Evening Run 5.01 8.06 00:49:01 09:47 06:05 384
                      04/19 Morning Run 6.01 9.67 00:54:22 09:03 05:37 266
                      04/20 6 MP 12.14 19.54 01:35:58 07:54 04:55 213
                      04/21 Morning Run 5.76 9.26 00:55:12 09:35 05:58 364

                      Totals: Time: 07:31:50 - 🦅Imperial: 50.96 mi - Metric: 81.99 km

                      Dave

                      AndyTN


                      Overweight per CDC BMI

                        20:19 in the 5k today. I executed a really good race and cannot come up with an excuse why I couldn't break 20. The wind was breezy but it also brought in cool temps so conditions were great. The barrier is breakable and improved by 20 seconds from last year so 20 seconds in the future will get me below it. Fun day!

                         

                        Nolan also got a PR today at 23:24. He partnered with a teammate to pace each other and both did well. Before anyone says how fantastic that time is for a 4th grader, he got bested by two younger teammates. One is a 2nd grader who ran 22:48 and another was a 3rd grader who ran 20:51, which it took me 2 miles to finally drop him. Lots of running talent on his team!

                        Memphis / 38 male

                        5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

                        DavePNW


                          Andy - congrats! Taking 20 sec off a 5 PR is a big deal. The next 20 may be harder!

                          Dave

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Andy - congrats! 5k is a fun distance to race - and 20 seconds is a LOT (that's equivalent to over a minute in a HM!).  Well done to your son as well.

                             

                            Dave - heh, I laughed a bit at your description of marathoning as being a bit like a cult - I think there's a bit of truth to that!  Hope that weather holds for you.

                             

                            Flavio - my first trail race was horrible too. I felt worse after that than after any race I can recall - including marathons. The only reason I did the next one was because I'd entered in a series and it was six races (and there were no other events on the cards for several months either!). Once I realised that trails are really just about enjoying the ride, that made a big difference. Of course, you might want to race hard sometimes, and that's fine - but for me personally a trail race is something you do for the adventure, and a road race is something you do to push the pace hard.  But anyways, I've posted before that PRs are an admirable goal to chase, but not sustainable in the long term.  They're an outcome-based goal.  But so much of running is about the process, putting in the work.  Finding joy in the process is the key to longevity.  I think Cal summed it up pretty well.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                            Up next: Still working on that...

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            dktrotter


                            Dorothea

                              Dave, you can have your Eugene weather (and I hope it stays favorable for you), but I'd like the Toledo weather to change, thank you very much. It's almost like the weather gods were like "oh, you're going to miss the heat when you go to Ohio. Let's bring some to you." Seriously. The historical average for the day is 60 high/40 low. This year, it looks like 63 will be the low of the day, with the race starting at 65F degrees and sunny. At least the dew point will be 54F (says the Floridian), so I may not need to adjust too much. Still, it would have been nice to make flying 1000 miles north worth it. (still hopeful it will change!)

                               

                              Nice job on the PR, Andy! Honestly, I didn't think you could cut so much off your last time, so maybe it wasn't too much of a reach as previously thought. Still, the next 20s may be a bit harder to get down. Maybe some overall bigger running volume would help. Congrats to your son as well!

                               

                              Thanks for the report, mmerkle. Sounds like it wasn't an ideal day from the start, with a lot of little factors adding up. Maybe too much sodium in the days leading up led to too much water weight? Could also lead to the feeling of no appetite in the morning as well. On paper, the time looked great, but it seems like it was way too much work to get it and that on a better day, you certainly could have reached your goal. I take it you're aiming for a late summer/fall ultra now?

                               

                              Amazing rust-busting 5K, Mark. It must be kind of cool to be able to say "I ran a near 16:30 5K, but I wasn't even trying that hard, ya know." ;-) It does make for some pretty high expectations for when you actually push it to the limit.

                              Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                              Last race: April 28, Glass City Marathon, 3:29:53. Saw deer; cried; didn't melt in rain or heat. 


                              Pain is my friend

                                Easy week for me. 54 miles and 4k vert. Doing a backyard ultra this weekend. I am  hoping is goes more than 24 hours.

                                ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

                                Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                                Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

                                 

                                Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles

                                Bonnevile Backyard ultra 

                                Ute 100 Aug

                                24 hour loop race?