2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 673 times)

JMac11


Taper Czar

    Well I’ll give a contrarian opinion here just based upon my experience:

     

    I’d actually rather see a dog off leash on a trail than one on leash. The reason for that is I know that a dog off leash walking next to it’s owner on a trail that runners frequent is going to be a very well behaved dog. A dog on leash on the same trail generally is not as well trained, and I’m more worried about them lunging at me. I’ve been lunged at probably 5 times in my life by a dog where I really thought they would bite me: four of them were dogs under 15 lbs.

     

    Of course this only applies to that situation: a trail where runners frequent. If it was a random trail that nobody is ever on, then yes, I’d be annoyed with off leash dogs.

     

    NYC probably going to overtake Wuhan as the worst city in the world during this epidemic, so that’s fun.

    5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

    CalBears


      Marky_Mark - it's a difficult decision for some to take a recovery week - only injury can that do for those Smile Sorry if you already mentioned that, but maybe you can remind me how a runner like you with 2:30:XX marathon time written all over you has such a FM PR? One of my guesses - you ran only two marathons and both of them had a terrible weather? Just kidding - I heard something about endurance, but still, 2:57 looks really strange.

       

      My week was tough for me, barely made it - ran every day really feeling tired and my only motivation was if I can finish it at any pace... Last week took really big toll on me. Next week will definitely take it much easier - no need to bury myself Smile

       

      Mon - off

      Tue - 16.3 @8:53  AM / 5 @8:54 PM

      Wed - 16.3 @9:35  AM / 5 @8:59 PM

      Thu - 16.3 @9:41  AM / 5 @9:03 PM

      Fri - 16.3 @9:20  AM / 5 @9:09 PM

      Sat - 16.3 @9:30  AM / 5 @9:02 PM

      Sun - off

      ===

      Total: 107.1 miles

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      cinnamon girl


        I want them on a leash. I got surrounded and attacked by a pack of dogs a few years back when I lived in Redding. Owners were in the general area but didn't seem to give a damn even when I was yelling and they were jumping on me. I got bruises and scratches, and a minor case of PTSD. Now when I see a dog off leash it's my gut reaction to really take notice and hesitate. I actually stopped today on my run because there was a dog up ahead running around off leash that had stopped traffic in both directions. I fear animals >>>> humans. I was chased by an angry goose yesterday. It's crazy how fast they can 'run'. They have the cadence but their form is much to be desired! He lacked endurance though so I ended up escaping his wrath with my unplanned extended stride.

         

        JTReeves - it's a bummer for us, but for kids like your son - having a whole season kaiboshed is a big effing deal. What year is he? Cool if you're getting to run with him for his workouts! 

         

        Slammin - thanks. What basics are you talking about

         

        Working on my playlist for tomorrow's long run.

          Mark: By late Sept. things hopefully will be back to normal. I'll be excited to see what you do in the marathon!

           

          Cal: 107 miles in 5 days...man, that's impressive. I was curious how you would find going from 13/5 to 16/5 doubles. To me a 16 mile run crosses over into being a long run, and takes more out of me than 13. So I'd find what you did this week really tough. Maybe the 13 daily run is optimal for you.

           

          Cinnamon:  He is a sophomore, so at least he's got a lot of seasons ahead of him. It's the worst for the seniors. So far we haven't run any workouts together; partly his schedule is Monday/Wed for those and does not always line up for me, and also he usually does them on the treadmill (Mikkey-like). Plus I have not really done any workouts the last 2 weeks. Motivation for those is kind of gone. But is is nice to run with my son.

           

          JMac: Hang in there man. BTW, I agree in general about dogs off leash in parks; in my experience those are usually very well-trained and low-key dogs.

           

          On the topic of dogs, I have a funny (now at least, was not at the time) story from several years ago. I was running on a Saturday morning on the usual dirt road, which has no houses along it and almost no traffic. A car was parked up ahead along the river. As I approached, 2 dogs came running out towards me. I love dogs (we have 2 goldens) and I usually "connect" well with others. I slowed and reached out my hand to let them smell, but it was obvious the larger of the 2 (a bulldog) was not interested in making friends; he tried to bite. I sped up and they kept after me, jumping and trying to bite. Meanwhile the owner was standing by his car, yelling at them to come back with kind of slurred speech. I sped up to a sprint to get away, but not before the bulldog jumped and got a good bit in my ass cheek. Once I got a good distance away, I stopped and looked at it, and he had drawn blood, quite a bit. I debated just going home or going back to the guy to find out if they were vaccinated. The guy ended up driving slowly by a few minutes later, and I waved him to stop. He rolled down the window and I was hit with a wave of alcohol; the guy was loaded (early Saturday morning!). Anyway, I told him his dog had bit me and asked if they were vaccinated, he said Oh sure, they are, they just like to play. Later I found a bunch of empty bottles where he had been parked. Anyway, my wife made me go to the ER to get my ass checked out (kind of embarrassing).  I reported the guy to the police for driving drunk. I personally don't think dogs should be aggressive like that if they are treated well by owners; I suspect they were abused. I don't blame the dog, I blame the owner, 100%.

          2:52:16 (2018)


          Elite Jogger

            Cal: 107 miles in 5 days...man, that's impressive. I was curious how you would find going from 13/5 to 16/5 doubles. To me a 16 mile run crosses over into being a long run, and takes more out of me than 13. So I'd find what you did this week really tough. Maybe the 13 daily run is optimal for you.

             

             

             

             

            C’mon, this is taking idiotic training to a new level.    Btw, Kram is the true treadmill king and has run some spectacular workouts in the past!

             

            JT - I also have 2 dogs (previously had 3) and there’s nothing funny about that story....I ALWAYS  blame the owners when a dog is badly behaved and it’s the same with parents and badly behaved kids. It makes my blood boil when I hear an owner screaming at their dog which is the worst thing you should do. 

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


            Elite Jogger

              Marky_Mark - it's a difficult decision for some to take a recovery week - only injury can that do for those Smile Sorry if you already mentioned that, but maybe you can remind me how a runner like you with 2:30:XX marathon time written all over you has such a FM PR? One of my guesses - you ran only two marathons and both of them had a terrible weather? Just kidding - I heard something about endurance, but still, 2:57 looks really strange.

               

               

              The clue is in the date of the marathon (2017) his debut on about 45mpw average iirc. Of course I would fully expect him to run 2:30:XX later this year. 👍

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                 

                Wow, I didn’t think I’d ever see those words posted by you!  I used to have a home treadmill years ago,  but got rid of it as it was mental torture...BUT I can go 20+ miles on the gym treadmill no problem as it’s busy and there’s a nice sea view.    I find that a footpod helps give better accuracy rather than just relying on the watch accelerometer.

                 

                 

                I actually have no objections in theory to running on a treadmill.  I used to run on them a lot about a decade ago, and I think they are very useful in specific circumstances (tempo runs and extended uphill running in particular).  I stopped running on them when I started training with my coach as he despises them (he's indicated no issue with using them during the pandemic, though).  It's also worth noting that I live in an area where there are very few days that are completely un-runnable due to weather.  Even if it ices over or is dangerously windy, there's always that roadway under the highway that I like to run back and forth under.

                 

                [I should note that I don't agree with using treadmills to avoid unpleasant but not dangerous weather - i.e. cold rain, warm and humid weather, etc - I feel there's a real advantage in learning to accept (and not complain) about all weather, as long as it is safe to run]

                 

                This pandemic is really the one circumstance where the treadmill is really handy.  And though I don't NEED to have it yet....by the time I decide I need it, it will be too late to get one.

                 

                Funny thing is, my sig other has started using it also.  So maybe it can be a keeper?  I keep looking at the room we placed it in, which was intended to be a gaming room of sorts, and thinking that perhaps it's better used as a home gym?

                 

                Congrats on all the time trials - WeatherDave, and Jmac.  Jmac - I need to find your not-quite-a-race report.

                 

                Dogs - I fervently agree that there are many more bad owners than bad dogs.  I've also found that dog owners sometimes think they don't need to pay attention to their dogs at all if the dogs are on leashes.  Leash on = attention off.

                 

                Cinnamon - I agree with you - geese can really move!  I sometimes have to run past flocks of them on the ground, and it's always a bit nervewracking.

                 

                Rovatti - still thinking of you. (and thanks to you also, Cinnamon, for all that you're doing.)  And best thoughts to all of you in NYC/CT/NJ area - JmacNimmalsJTReeves (hope I didn't miss anyone).

                 

                ***

                 

                I'll drop off my two weeks.  I got my SI Joint, lumbar area, and hamstrings injected with prolotherapy about 10 days ago, and things have been improving ever since (I only wish that I had somehow figured out that my back was starting to fall apart again, and gotten the injections before One City.  Oh well - spilt milk and all that, and the world has bigger problems).

                 

                No pool, no gym, no yoga studio, so doing stuff at home as I can, and subbing in long walks for the pool.  More and more running routes keep getting closed down here, which makes it tricky to determine where I can run.  Another wrinkle is that there are multiple different jurisdictions that I run through - Virginia, DC, MD, National Park Service.  I usually don't give it any thought as to when I cross from one into the other, but now I'm starting to have to, as the rules change varying on the jurisdiction (and from day to day).

                 

                43 miles, 9 miles of walking, 6 "miles" of pool-running, and 1000 meters of swimming
                M: core, 1000 meters of swimming, and one hour pool-running.
                T: 12 miles, including an alternating short hill/short tempo workout. Ran two short hill repeats in roughly 70 seconds with 2:30 recovery, then 1.5 miles at 6:43 pace. Another two 70 second hill repeats, then 1.5 miles at 6:29 pace. Ended with a final two short hill repeats. Prolotherapy injections that afternoon.
                W: 4 mile walk.
                Th: Upper body weights/core and 5 mile walk.
                F: DIY yoga, 10 miles easy (9:16)
                Sa: 12 miles, including 8 longer hill repeats (just over 2:00 up, and then just over 3:00 down). Followed with leg injury prevention work.
                Su: 9 miles (9:27) and live streamed yoga.


                55 miles and 7 miles of walking
                M: upper body weights/core and a 4 mile walk.
                T: 9 miles, including an alternating short hill/short tempo workout. Ran two short hill repeats in roughly 70 seconds with 2:30 recovery, then 1.5 miles at 6:37 pace. Another two 70 second hill repeats, then 1.5 miles at 6:29 pace. Ended with one 70 second hill repeat (hamstring got sore, so skipped the second repeat and the cooldown).
                W: streaming yoga, pull-ups, 3 mile walk.
                Th: 7 miles outside (9:25), upper body weights/core, 2 miles on treadmill (9:56?).
                F: 12 miles, including 8 longer hill repeats (2:20-2:30 up, just under 3:00 down). Followed with leg injury prevention work.
                Sa: 4 miles on treadmill (9:04), live streamed yoga, 6.5 miles very easy (9:03) plus drills and two uphill strides.
                Su: 14.5 miles, split as 12 progressive (first 4 averaged 9:27, next 4 averaged 7:43; next 4 averaged 7:04) and then a 2.5 mile cooldown. Followed with leg injury prevention work.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                SteveChCh


                Hot Weather Complainer

                   

                  It is if you're President Donald Trump.  Seriously, being home so much has allowed me time to watch a lot of videos I'd never look at. Media directly asking "Why are you calling it Chinese Coronavirus" when the station they work for was calling it "Wuhan Coronavirus" a week or two ago. Ignore Ebola, Spanish Flu, Swine Flu (not regional, also didn't come from pigs), etc. Trump is just a racist being racist he just switched from Mexicans to Chinese. Thankfully Canadians are ignored.

                   

                  This is a great point.  I've had time to watch entire press conferences with President Trump and health experts.  Then I see the media report on it and include a soundbite out of context and misrepresent the entire thing.  Obviously I knew this was happening before but didn't realise quite how jaw droppingly dishonest it was.

                  PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                  Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                  Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Motorway Half-Marathon February 28 (tempo/training run), Christchurch Marathon April 11, South Island Half-Marathon August 1, Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    Cal - yes Mikkey has summed it up well.  2017 was my first (and so far, only) marathon - I'd only been running for 2 years at that point.  I made the classic rookie error - went out too fast and had plenty of time to regret it later, plus I was only on ~45mpw at the time.  The weather was OK - a little warm/humid but not enough to be a real issue.

                     

                    Then, another rookie error, I got back into training too fast and gave myself an ITB injury that made running totally miserable for a couple of months, so I decided to focus on HM and 10k distance.  And now I realise that my FM time is very soft relative to my other PRs so I need to fix that.

                     

                    Anyway it took me 3 years to get the courage up to do another marathon so a few more months wait won't make a lot of difference.  Would just have preferred I could run it in Christchurch which is a course I know and like a lot.

                    5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                    HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    Last race: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct, 2:41:41 (PB)

                    Up next: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 28 Nov (I HOPE!)

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    DavePNW


                      My week:

                      Mon - 7 with 1-mile time trial

                      Tue - 10 easy

                      Wed - 6.5 easy

                      Thu - 8 w/Aussie quarters - 8x400m w/200m float recoveries

                      Fri - 6 easy

                      Sat - 15 LR

                      Sun - 5.5 easy

                      Total = 58 miles

                       

                      Comments:

                      - Reported the mile time trial previously. Very happy with my time of 5:45, 15 sec faster than the one time I tried this previously, two years ago.  Also happy with the evenness of my splits - 1:26, 1:25, 1:27, 1:26.

                      - First time trying the Aussie aka Deek’s quarters. As I understand the reps are supposed to be a bit faster than 5k and the recoveries around MP. Got the job done. My 5k PR pace is 6:25; reps were between 6:11-6:22. Held a pretty strong pace for the recoveries. It was tough because you really don’t feel like you get recovered. Which of course is the intent. 
                      - The 15 miler is probably about as long as it’s going to get. When I’m not training for a marathon, I don’t have much interest in anything longer.

                      Dave

                      dpschumacher


                      Making a comeback

                        Mark/DW-Added some thoughts in the 1:30 thread.

                         

                        I am enjoying the Mikkey/Cal and NZ/Eng smack talk.  Have no dog in either one, but did enjoy reading the articles....

                         

                        Cal- Just out there crushing the doubles.  Wow.

                         

                        Dave-  Really nice job on the Aussie 1/4's.  Way to get some turnover and moving pretty quick.

                         

                        My week-  I have been sick with bronchitis all week.  I got it from my dad 2 weeks ago, but started feeling it overnight last Sunday.  he started feeling it last week Thursday. and hit me a few days later.  He went through the covid testing (he's 67) and was negative and tested positive for bronchitis (bacterial), so i have been on antibiotics all week with the same symptoms.  Got enough miles to crack the green in the running game (70 ish).  Original plan was to be up near 90 but kept adjusting down all week with my coach since I just felt like crap.

                         

                        To keep things interesting and with no races, we are doing a inter squad (east vs west) with stava segments.  We pick a segment on each side of the river and you have a week to drop as fast as a time that you can and then we have 3 age groups.  We are cross country scoring it with the best 3 times in each age group.  So that will be fun to get through the summer.  Since you have a week to do it, we are all running different times.  So with 2 segments (a two miler and a 1 miler this week) plus 3 age groups, there are plenty of scoring opportunities for the 20-30 guys and gals.  You can take a crack at each segment as well.  We had someone drop a 4:41 in the middle of a 10 miler and a 10:40 in a 20 mile run (two different guys).  So when you see me talking about segments that is what that is about....

                         

                        Day, date, plan, actual, time. notes....

                         

                         

                         

                        M 23-Mar 9 6.03 0:46:53 Slow recovery jog
                            4 xx   Skipped: diagnosed with bronchitis
                        Tu 24-Mar 6 5.73 0:44:31 Slog day 2
                        W 25-Mar 6 7.03 0:51:44 Felt good for 2 miles then just grinded it out
                        Th 26-Mar 6 8.19 1:02:06 Feeling ok-ish
                        F 27-March 9 10.01 1:11:52 Did the collegeville East segment (5:35) with 5:31 on the watch which I started a little early...not to bad while hacking a lung
                            4 xx   skipped
                        Sa 03/28/2020 12 11.21 1:23:02 Felt ok.
                              5.07 0:35:32 Felt really good in the pouring rain
                        Su 3/29/20 18 17.2 2:04:16 did what i could. happy for this week to be over.

                        2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                        2020 Goals:

                        5k:16:30

                        HM: 1:18:00

                        Marathon: 2:45:00

                        New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                          This is a great point.  I've had time to watch entire press conferences with President Trump and health experts.  Then I see the media report on it and include a soundbite out of context and misrepresent the entire thing.  Obviously I knew this was happening before but didn't realise quite how jaw droppingly dishonest it was.

                           

                          Without commenting on current political circumstances, I will note:  the media is NEVER going to exactly capture everything that was said and done.  It's always oversimplified for the quick soundbite and limited attention span, and also filtered by both the reporter's inherent biases (which you can never completely eliminate) and the need to drive an audience.

                           

                          Every journalist I know insists that they call it as they see it, and I believe that.  Thing is, we each see things slightly differently, based on our own life experiences.

                           

                          About 15 years ago, I was on the defense team for a death penalty trial in Houston (Andres, if you're curious, it was the Max Soffar case).

                           

                          I sat in that Houston courtroom for the entire trial - heard all the testimony each day.  And then I'd go back to my hotel room at night, turn on the local news, and wonder how the reporter could have possibly been in the same courtroom as me.

                           

                          I don't attribute it to malice.  In the same way I really believe the prosecutors believed my client was guilty, and were not trying to send an innocent man to death row.  We each have our own perspective, which we are convinced is the truth.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          cinnamon girl


                            M: 6 mi (8:39)
                            T: 75 min (8:19)
                            W: 8.4 mi (8:04)
                            T: 8.5 mi fartlek
                            F: 6.5 mi with one stride for a goose chase (7:57). Garmin says I went from 8:00 to 4:23 in 5 sec. lol. 
                            S: 10.2 mi (7:57)
                            S: 2 hr 15 min easy, hilly (8:27)

                             

                            64.5 mi. Garmin says only 860 ft gain for today's run but felt more than that. 

                             

                            Rovatti - hope you are well!! The next drug shortages I anticipate will be etomidate and propofol.

                            JMac - I skimmed through the last few pages but didn't see your Time Trial Report. What page is it on?

                            Dave - another good, consistent training week

                            Goldens - oh for sure, I would never ever worry. I saw a beautiful, friendly (of course) one on my run today.

                            JTReeves - whattheheck. That sounds frightening!

                            DW - hills followed by tempo are good workouts for sure.

                             

                            Hi Piwi and MarkyMark!

                               Rovatti - ...The next drug shortages I anticipate will be etomidate and propofol.

                              Well that SUCCs...

                               

                              This place is a hot mess, but I'm fine.

                               

                              Hey to everybody!

                              cinnamon girl