2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 673 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

     

    Without commenting on current political circumstances, I will note:  the media is NEVER going to exactly capture everything that was said and done. 

     

    It also depends on what media source you listen to/follow/etc.

     

    I'm pretty sure I've torn my Achilles tendon after goofing off and riding a shopping cart (to the back of the line) through a parking lot like a kid. It doesn't seem to bother me while running. It DOES suck to walk so I'm taking a week off. I've not iced it and I've avoided NSAIDS because I'm stubborn. Sucks because I was just getting interested in training for my ultra. At this point (President extends quarantine, Western States is canceled, California closed parks due to an inability to maintain a safe distance from people, etc.) I'm honestly going to be surprised if it happens. Race is mid-July (2 weeks after Western States) and I'm sure they'd love to have it. I just don't expect many people to do the 100 if it doesn't get them anything for qualifying.

     

     

    cal 107 mile weeks? Just because you want to or are you moving on to another race? Taking full advantage of working from home indefinately?

     

    Is anyone here "essential" at work, or is literally everyone here working from home?

    2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      Well I’ll give a contrarian opinion here just based upon my experience:

       

      I’d actually rather see a dog off leash on a trail than one on leash. The reason for that is I know that a dog off leash walking next to it’s owner on a trail that runners frequent is going to be a very well behaved dog. A dog on leash on the same trail generally is not as well trained, and I’m more worried about them lunging at me. I’ve been lunged at probably 5 times in my life by a dog where I really thought they would bite me: four of them were dogs under 15 lbs.

       

      Of course this only applies to that situation: a trail where runners frequent. If it was a random trail that nobody is ever on, then yes, I’d be annoyed with off leash dogs.

       

      NYC probably going to overtake Wuhan as the worst city in the world during this epidemic, so that’s fun.

       

      I'll STRONGLY disagree with you here. I'd say 10% of dogs off leash in my specific experiences are well behaived. The other 90% are the dumbass dog owners who think just because they're 'hiking" the dog can run free since it's the only way the dog gets any exercise. It's annoying as fuck. I'd rather run past a dog on a leash with a choke collar being held by the owner than a 130 pound "whatever the fuck it was" white thing that EASILY came up to my waist and was pushing me off balance trying to sniff my belly button. Doesn't matter if it is road, or dirt.

       

      Watching New York, and thinking about people traveling to their vacation home at this point to quarantine themselves, just makes me sit and think "do people even care?"

      2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

      Fishyone


        CAL  107 with 2 days off......impressive stuff.

         

        CINN  I have goose encounters almost weekly running along the river.  It's worse when they have their little babies and either mom or dad(I can't tell the difference) get all aggressive.  I'm not sure whats worse the aggressive behavior or the goose crap everywhere!!

         

        DPS Nice week while sick.  I never know when to take a day or "suck it up and run"  I know there's supposed to be some rule about below/above the neck symptoms......

         

        JTReeves  Not sure who sounded worse in your story dog or person....  Either way I you were going to get bit I think you got bit by the safest one of the two.

         

        DavePNW I'm thinking about cutting back long runs too.

        5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

        Fishyone


          Had a good week with 2 workouts.  One more week then I think I'll begin to pull back.  This is where I'd begin to cutback for a taper anyway.  Not sure where to go from there as I'm sure that my May 3 race and May 17 backup won't happen.  I'd love to see where I'm at fitness-wise but there no way I can bring myself to do a marathon (or half) time trial.  Maybe a 5K or 10K TT???? 

           

            total pace  
          Mon 11 7:47 11 with 5T 1/2 rec 2T
          Tue 7.5 8:24 GA 7.5
          Wed 15 8:49 Mid-Long
          Thu 7 9:17 Recovery
          Thu 8 7:37 8 progressive last mile 10Kpace
          Fri 7.5 9:26 Recovery
          Fri 7.7 8:47 GA 7.5
          Sat 20 8:55 Long run
          Sun 8.3 8:46 GA 8
            92    

          5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

             

            It also depends on what media source you listen to/follow/etc.

             

            CBS is now on my blacklist after representing photos of hospitals in Italy as being from New York hospitals.

            PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

            Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

            Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Motorway Half-Marathon February 28 (tempo/training run), Christchurch Marathon April 11, South Island Half-Marathon August 1, Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

            Nimmals


            Stotan Disciple

              72 Mile week with 2 workouts and a hill short long run.

              Tues 4x 2k w 2x400M got chased off the track

              Thu 9 miles w/ 3 mile tempo (5:37, 5:12, 5:09)

              Sun 14 Hilly miles in the rain.

               

              Roavtti & Cinnamon, hope you guys are staying healthy as you work the frontlines.

               

              Jmac I was attacked by an off leash Labrador and a Cane Corso on the same run in different parts of the trails (Bethpage Park).  Dog owners have no regards they think that their dogs are all friendly because they feed them. The Labrador attacked me bit my clothes and didn't break skin but destroyed my shirt. the cane cross ran into me like I'm his playmate. He had huge jaws and weighed about 80 lbs thank god he wasn't the one that bit I would not have been lucky.. I was with the autistic kid . I stopped doing our training there. Meanwhile the bike path has no dogs allowed and Bethpage has no off leash. signs everywhere.

              Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

              CalBears


                Marky_Mark - just one marathon raced? Oh, that explains a lot - one time thing is obviously not representative. Marathon experience is also invaluable - I did a lot of mistakes during my first marathon and after gaining at least some experience first time, just 4 weeks later I ran 8 minutes faster. Will be interesting to see what results you will get - I just wish we knew when the uncertainty ends.

                 

                DavePNW - decent mileage for having no inspiration Smile

                 

                DPS - I have a suspicion that you are some kind of "suffer-lover" runner - I would definitely scale much much more if I had bronchitis - just not worth the risk I think. But, of course, I don't know your effort level for all that big mileage.

                 

                DW - good mileage. I am still surprised at runners who do regular workouts, it just doesn't make much sense at this point imho - but I am in a minority, I know Smile

                 

                Fishyone - great impressive mileage!

                 

                Mikkey - that's the whole point - to increase percentage of idiotic training,  though, it's not too idiotic - I had much worse case during Aug-Sep 2016 - but that ended in some injury because I added workouts to the high mileage I ran those two months. This time I am trying to base my pace completely on how my body feels - and I felt really bad last few days last week - so, I am definitely cutting down on mileage this week. But you also taking your training on another level - 13 miles for the whole last week? Are you out of motivation or some bodily issues? I do not feel comfortable knowing my main opponent rests while I am running all those high mileage weeks Smile

                 

                cal 107 mile weeks? Just because you want to or are you moving on to another race? Taking full advantage of working from home indefinitely?

                 

                Just because I finally want to run some high mileage weeks, just mileage and no workouts. I tried that few times in the past but every time I was "seduced" by how great I felt and every time I did some workouts while running high mileage weeks and and all that didn't end well. Nothing major injury-wise, but it was bad enough I would be out of PR shape after those "incidents". Just want to try to do it right this time - based on past experience. Though, being employed and paid for working remotely helps tremendously Smile

                paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                   

                  Just because I finally want to run some high mileage weeks, just mileage and no workouts. I tried that few times in the past but every time I was "seduced" by how great I felt and every time I did some workouts while running high mileage weeks and and all that didn't end well. Nothing major injury-wise, but it was bad enough I would be out of PR shape after those "incidents". Just want to try to do it right this time - based on past experience. Though, being employed and paid for working remotely helps tremendously Smile

                   

                  Awesome. I can't even think about doing 13+ miles a day and work is slow right now. Although, if it was trails maybe I could.

                  2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    Calbears - I guess it's all semantics, but I don't consider myself to be doing "regular workouts" - those would be things like track workouts hard tempos, etc.  Stuff to get one in shape to race.

                     

                    I'm doing stuff right now with a goal of strengthening, especially my back and glutes.  Believe me, if I shut stuff down completely, it would wreck me.  And just running easy pace is not optimal from a therapeutic basis either.

                     

                    What I'm working on right now is using my core to hold my SI joint stable while also powering off with my glutes.  If I don't work on that, i'm going to go backwards.  And I need to be practicing doing that at a variety of effort levels and inclines - when I only work at holding my back stable while running slow, stuff falls apart quickly when I then add in a harder effort.

                     

                    So I'm doing some harder running, but much of it is deliberately uphill, and all of it is with extended recovery to ensure that I'm not digging too deep.  It's not training to race; it's rehab. If that makes sense.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    JMac11


                    Taper Czar

                      Well Grandma's was officially cancelled today, so that's it for me for marathon training. I'll stick my head in here to see how everyone's doing, but I'll be spending most of my time now doing 5K/10K training as they're well suited for time trials, plus they are probably my "softest" PRs. I'll be over in the sub 1:30 thread, hanging out with Kiwis.

                       

                      ETA: Forgot to include my time trial race report, for those interested. I can't figure out how to get the link working, so I'll just dump the full text here:

                       

                      2020 Half Marathon Time Trial

                       

                      Pre-"Race"

                       

                      This may be the most unique race report I'll ever write.

                       

                      I was originally scheduled to run the NYC Half on March 15. 2 weeks prior, I came down with the flu, which knocked me out of training for 4 days. After a build back up, I was ready to go, although I still felt like my lungs were weak from the virus and my legs felt wonky on my quality days.

                       

                      Of course, this was all going on with the COVID-19 crisis. With about a week to go, it was quickly becoming obvious that NYC was going to become an area of high infections (although it wasn't obvious how high at the time). However, NYRR continued to send out notes that they were doing everything in their power to run the race. On Tuesday, 5 days before the race, the notification finally came that the race was going to be cancelled. I was super bummed, but in a way, completely at peace with it, as I wasn't sure I was in great shape coming back from being out with the flu and testing my lungs in a race that soon after may not have been a great idea. I decided to scrap the mini-taper and put in my now usual 80 mile week.

                       

                      I decided to scramble to find alternative, smaller races. The only thing that popped up in the area was a half in Queens, 1 week later. Therefore, I decided to sign up for that. Of course, that was eventually cancelled as well once NYC banned all public gatherings. This really left me scrambling.

                       

                      While this was going on, I really started to get down and out, like I'm sure many of you have experience over the past couple of weeks, or just are experiencing now. A big part of me said "screw it, it's not worth it trying to figure something out." But another part said that I needed something to look forward to. I had spent so much time this spring training, and to just give up at this point seemed foolish. I also wanted something to pick my spirits up, as everything else going on in NYC was so negative. So I decided it was time for my first ever Time Trial.

                       

                      I floated the idea of running a half marathon via GPS, but I knew I would always question the result, even if I ran slightly long. So I spent HOURS searching for USATF certified courses in my region. It had a lot of criteria:

                       

                      1) Within a 2 hour drive

                      2) Didn't have to be flat, but not a super hilly course

                      3) Minimal road running. A half marathon on a running/bike path would be ideal

                      4) Finally, but perhaps most importantly: relatively simple instructions to follow on the course markings. It couldn't be so complicated that I wouldn't be able to follow the turnaround points

                       

                      I probably looked through 50 or so course certifications in detail and narrowed it down to just TWO courses that fit these criteria. As a note, none of the courses in Central Park would work because they all require you to run in the bike lane, and given the Stay at Home order in place, the parks were actually more crowded than ever, meaning I'd have to run the race at some ridiculous hour like 11 PM to have space to run. After learning there would be some wind on Sunday morning, I had to scrap one course, as it's run on a part of New York Bay that is notoriously windy due to geography.

                       

                      So it was decided: I would run a half marathon on a course about 1.5 hours north of NYC. I had no idea what to expect, given the notorious nature of how difficult time trials are, let alone a half marathon time trial.

                       

                      Morning of Race

                       

                      With the course markings downloaded onto my phone, I drove up north with my wife and dog. The forecast called for unseasonably cold temperatures. We've had quite the warm winter here in NYC, so it was a shock to see race time temps would be just below freezing, with winds around 10 mph. Still, not bad conditions to run a time trial.

                       

                      This course was one of the easiest to follow from a certification point of view. I drove to the two big turnaround points before the race. The first one, which was located on a bridge, actually had a "+" painted on the ground, which made it super easy to find, with no concern that I would somehow miss it on the way through.

                       

                      The second turnaround, which was 6 miles away over a bridge, was just as easy. They used a drain (manhole cover) as the turnaround point, and it was so well drawn on the certification map I actually said "wow, there it is!" out loud, like a total running nerd. More importantly, just like the first turnaround, it was impossible to miss. It was just after a 1.5 mile bridge over the Hudson ended, right next to a NYS information booth. Can't botch that.

                       

                      Finally, I drove to the start. This identification was also easy, as it was the only drain in the parking lot, but to my surprise, the start/finish was actually spray painted on the ground as well. So overall, I made the right decision: the course marker did their job super well and either used obvious landmarks or spray painted it on the ground. I was ready to go!

                       

                      First 3 miles: 5:37, 5:44, 5:48

                       

                      First mile out of the gate was too fast, although it was also downhill. It required me to run on, and cross, a road to get to the trail, but that was over in half a mile and I was on my way.

                       

                      Felt really good in the first 3 miles. I was ecstatic, because my legs felt wonky all week, and I wasn't sure what was going on. I've done enough tapers to know when things are off, and these felt a bit weird, but I know the taper nonsense I've been in the past and tried to ignore it. Miles 1-2 felt great. 3 was good, but not as great.

                       

                      Miles 4-6: 5:40, 5:40, 5:49

                       

                      Mile 4 was bad. Like, what am I doing out here bad. You make the turnaround at 3.25 miles in, and right when I turned around, I started to feel like shit. I came through in 5:40, but I immediately started having the "this is not sustainable, this is not your day" thoughts. Perhaps even worse, the point to go back to the start was quickly approaching within mile 5, and I seriously considered bailing. But I did a little negotiating in my head and it went like this: "If you keep running sub 5:50, you need to keep going, because that's PR pace. If you fall off of that and go above 5:50, you can quit." When mile 5 came in at 5:40, it actually gave me a big boost, because I said "you know what, you can actually let off the gas just a tiny bit, and you're going to be okay."

                       

                      I will say, I have never had a dark thought that early in a race. But, some of that is probably the time trial aspect, where it's just so easy to bail out. It's weird: I know in a marathon that I'm going to go into a rough patch somewhere in the first half of the race. I prepare for that, and when it happens, I just ignore it. But this one really seemed to get to me. It's a good personal takeaway for me, and probably the biggest thing I learned from this half. We've talked in these forums about why you need to race, and this is a perfect example of that: I've run 20+ half marathons all out, and yet it took me until this one to realize this.

                       

                      Finally, one other thing that motivated me: my wife said she would wait with the the dog at the turnaround point around mile 9. I wanted to get to them and not leave her stranded. So that probably helped as well

                       

                      Miles 7-9: 5:42, 5:43, 5:42

                       

                      When I ticked off another 5:42 mile in mile 7, my hopes perked up. I said "you know what, you can PR today, you're more than halfway done and you've got a buffer." That really kept me going. Not much else to report in these miles. Things hurt, but I was okay at least for mile 7-8.

                       

                      Miles 10-12: 5:47, 5:47, 5:48

                       

                      After turning around on the bridge at mile 9.25, the pain slowly progressed. The pace slipped a little, but I kept telling myself "keep it under 5:50 and you got a PR, keep it under 5:50 and you got a PR." As I've said before, I find miles 9 and 10 to be the worst part of a half, because you're in so much pain at this point, but not close enough to the finish to visualize workouts you've done in the past. I remember during mile 10 thinking of letting off the gas a little bit more, but when it came in at 5:47, I knew I just had to keep trying to hold on for dear life. I was not in a good mood for these miles.

                       

                      Mile 13: 5:51

                       

                      At this point, I knew I had a PR in the bag. The pain in mile 13 was definitely worse than any I've experience in a PR before. Part of this was the slowing of the pace, as you guys know I'm a big negative split guy. Therefore, with a pace getting slower and slower each mile, I was due for a really painful day. Plus, it was a time trial, which never makes anything easy of course.

                       

                      The final 0.5 miles was back up that hill that led to the fast start. With about 400 meters to go, I felt my stomach turn. As usual during the race, I was battling stitches and nausea, but my nausea pills had generally kept them at bay. But with 400 meters to go, it went from just the usual to "oh shit I'm going to have to vomit."

                       

                      Finish: 1:15:28, a new PR!

                       

                      Right after finishing, I went straight to a grass patch and started dry heaving. There was a damn cop in the parking lot which made it a bit more embarrassing. I kept doing it, but surprisingly, nothing came up. Usually I'll dry heave like 3 times before vomiting on the 4th time, so I clearly just caught myself. I think I literally stopped right at the point where I wouldn't actually vomit. If I had to run even another 50 meters, I may have vomited all over myself while running. So elizabeth, I feel your pain. Okay gross part over.

                       

                      My coughing was also uncontrollable at the end of it, but I think that was the remnants of the flu still. It took me a good 5 minutes walking around before I felt like my breathing was back under control.

                       

                      I went over to my wife, who was waiting for me at the finish, and told her this was all worth it: the spring training, looking for a race, the pain.

                       

                      I said that my last half PR was the proudest I've been of a PR given the last half of it was into 20+ MPH headwinds, but this tops that. I battled so many mental demons early on and easily could have just gave up and quit given the time trial aspect of this. But to hold on, grab a new PR all by myself, in the middle of this crisis? A lot of races will fade in our memory, but this one I will always remember.

                      5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                      DavePNW


                        Well Grandma's was officially cancelled today, so that's it for me for marathon training. I'll stick my head in here to see how everyone's doing, but I'll be spending most of my time now doing 5K/10K training as they're well suited for time trials, plus they are probably my "softest" PRs. I'll be over in the sub 1:30 thread, hanging out with Kiwis.

                         

                         

                        Well obviously no one here is marathon training anymore, so no reason for you to leave.

                        Dave

                        CalBears


                           Well obviously no one here is marathon training anymore, so no reason for you to leave.

                           

                          At least we don't hear JMac is quitting anymore... 

                          paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                          dpschumacher


                          Making a comeback

                            Jmac......fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge.  I knew I likely wouldn't get to run it but still gutted.

                            2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                            2020 Goals:

                            5k:16:30

                            HM: 1:18:00

                            Marathon: 2:45:00

                            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                            madisonrunner


                              I bought a pair of Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pro shoes and they are phenomenal.  They weigh significantly less than the vaporflys and have just a 3mm heel-toe drop.  They certainly have less cushioning than the vaporflys but they still feel springy.  I'm still determining if they have enough cushioning for a marathon but for shorter speedwork/time trials they have been perfect.

                               

                              With no races available, I'm following a repeating 2 week schedule:

                              Week A:  90 total miles with a time trial and a relatively easy LT/VO2 max workout

                              Week B:  100 total miles with a long run and a hard LT/VO2 max workout

                               

                               

                              My last few weeks:

                              3/16 week:

                              M - 6/6

                              T - 10.5/5

                              W - 15/5

                              R - 8

                              F - 13 w/ 6x0.75 miles @ 5:05 pace

                              S - 21

                              S - 11

                              Total 101

                               

                              3/23 week:

                              M - 9/5

                              T - 14 w/ 4.5 mile LT @ 5:30 pace / 5

                              W - 8/5

                              R - 10

                              F - 10

                              S - 18 w/ 5 mile TT in 26:47 (PB!)

                              S - 8

                              Total 90

                               

                              3/30 week (so far):

                              M - 11/5

                              T - 14 w/ 7 mile LT @ 5:30 pace / 5

                               

                              The time trials have been fun but hard.  This may be just semantics but if I run my fastest time for a distance in a time trial, it's a personal best and not a personal record (since it's not officially recorded) even if I do it on a certified course (like on my 10k time trial a few weeks ago).  So JMac I applaud your effort but I think you need to keep training so you can get some official PRs Smile.   I'm planning to try a half marathon for the next time trial and then likely a 5k after that.  If the Green Bay Marathon is cancelled then I'm psyching myself to go after a sub 2:35 marathon in a time trial.

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                Welcome to the 2020 Marathon Training Thread.

                                We're doing this a lot differently in 2020...learn from others this year because we're going to make marathon training great again. Just don't forget to have fun out there. 

                                 

                                Looks like I called it from the start.

                                2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.