Forums >Racing>Goal of sub 20 5k
True to some degree. When I first started racing 5k's, I was a 22 min+ runner, averaging about 30+ miles/week.
I added only speedworks and I brought my 5k PR to 21+ by knocking almost 1.5 min off my previous PR.
But that's when I reached my plateau. For the next 2.5 years, I added more and more tougher speedwork, and I only knocked a few second off my 5k PR.
I trained for a marathon and up my average to almost 60, I broke 20 easily without even training for it.
I am less talented than a lot of folks, so my 22 min may be 20 min for some folks here. May be some talented 30mpw runners could break 20 with just some speedwork added. But I bet when they want to go to the next level, something like a sub 18 or sub 17, they would have to up their miles.
The fact is that if you want to get faster then you need to eat more yummy GU! Otherwise I am willing to bet that if someone ran 35 MPW for a year and ran a 5K at 23:00 minutes and then ran for another year doing 30 MPW, both with speed work and hills thrown in, they would run a faster 5K the second time. Sometimes all more miles does for you is get you injured. *This of course assumes that the course and all other conditions are the same.
The fact is that if you want to get faster then you need to eat more yummy GU!
Otherwise I am willing to bet that if someone ran 35 MPW for a year and ran a 5K at 23:00 minutes and then ran for another year doing 30 MPW, both with speed work and hills thrown in, they would run a faster 5K the second time. Sometimes all more miles does for you is get you injured.
*This of course assumes that the course and all other conditions are the same.
Why is it sideways?
Sorry if I ruffled some feathers. Or got too crazy fluffy psychological about this weird and kind of pointless thing that I do just about every day. And if I am not making any sense, then that's my own damn fault. I'd like to blame the subject matter, though. Because it's elusive and vague.
Sure, running more helps. But the answer, the secret, the truth, whatever, is not miles per week. We're not after miles per week. And it's a danger on this site because your log is right there in public view, and the sign to others that you want it, that you deserve "it"--whatever number that "it" may be--is that weekly number. And you start chasing it and then you forget about the real goal. The miles are only the sign, not the thing.
If you want it badly enough, the miles per week, the running more, will take care of itself on its own. As will the other elements of training, which are important, too. Without the paint there is no painting, sure. And the best artists paint the most. But the artist doesn't obsess about the quantity of paint he uses. He's focused on the painting.
I think burried somewhere in what Jeff was saying is the point that things like lifetime mileage and even recent mileage are a hell of a lot more important than current mileage. The reason Jeff can run a sub 20 5k off of 3.1 miles per week (or zero miles per week for that matter) has an awful lot to do with the many tens of thousands of miles he's run in his lifetime, over a period of many years, at all different speeds, in competition, in workouts, in play, over all kinds of terrain, in all kinds of conditions. Backed up by good genes. If you've run 25,000 miles in the last 10 years, or if you ran 6,000 miles between January 2007 and December 2008, that's probably has a lot more to say about what you can run a 5k right now than what mileage you're running right now. At least I think he was saying that.
I think burried somewhere in what Jeff was saying is the point that things like lifetime mileage and even recent mileage are a hell of a lot more important than current mileage. The reason Jeff can run a sub 20 5k off of 3.1 miles per week (or zero miles per week for that matter) has an awful lot to do with the many tens of thousands of miles he's run in his lifetime, over a period of many years, at all different speeds, in competition, in workouts, in play, over all kinds of terrain, in all kinds of conditions. Backed up by good genes.
If you've run 25,000 miles in the last 10 years, or if you ran 6,000 miles between January 2007 and December 2008, that's probably has a lot more to say about what you can run a 5k right now than what mileage you're running right now.
At least I think he was saying that.
Oh yeah, and this. You have to remember that mikey and I share a brain. He got the lucid half last night.
Without the paint there is no painting, sure. And the best artists paint the most. But the artist doesn't obsess about the quantity of paint he uses. He's focused on the painting.
I'm not quite sure I understand the second part of this analogy. I wouldn't think of it as 'quantity of paint'. Instead I'm thinking more like: 'Here's how much paint I can have and here's the canvases and brushes...how can I make the most (best) of this?'. I have a certain amount of time I can dedicate to training so I have to make the most of what I have. If I had more, I'd train more.
Really? If you were an artist, concerned with perfecting your craft, you think the best way to go about it would be to calculate the most efficient use of painting time during the day? You sound more like an engineer or an architect to me. And maybe that's the way you approach your training: like building the best bridge. I agree: this is the dominant analogy. And it's dominant for good reason: it works. It makes sense.
Maybe it's just a matter of temperament, but I want to proliferate analogies a bit. Intelligence demands multiple perspectives. Is the problem really that we do not adequately capitalize on the time we are given to run? Maybe. But what I mostly see (am I projecting here?) is people afraid to put all their irons in the fire. Afraid to let go of the rail. So we say: Ah, I need to run more. And out the door we go. Good!
But WHY run more? It's the QUESTION that's important. And because we think we have the answer, we forget the question. The bright ones, the burning ones, the Gebs and the Halls and the Shorters and the Lindgrens: none of them had answers, but they had big, big questions.
Lindgren had more questions than answers in general.
He lives in Honolulu now.
As for how a person does or doesn't paint.... yeah....
I just want to get my 5k time down below x. (in my case, I'll be shooting for 19:00-19:30 to be woohoo happy)
Good Bad & The Monkey
Jeff.
Dude.
What does art have to do with efficiency of putting paint on a canvas?!?
Dude. Who are you, Jackson Pollack?
I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.
Poor baby
Prince of Fatness
Jeff. Dude. What does art have to do with efficiency of putting paint on a canvas?!? Dude. Who are you, Jackson Pollack?
Does the fact that you are posting here mean that you are in for sub 20?
Not at it at all.
Yeah, right. My name is Rembrandt, and the reason that I am going out running in January wearing a Hefty bag because it is 35 degrees and raining is because I have a masterpiece to paint on September 13.
Or something.
Really? If you were an artist, concerned with perfecting your craft, you think the best way to go about it would be to calculate the most efficient use of painting time during the day? You sound more like an engineer or an architect to me. And maybe that's the way you approach your training: like building the best bridge. I agree: this is the dominant analogy. And it's dominant for good reason: it works. It makes sense. Maybe it's just a matter of temperament, but I want to proliferate analogies a bit. Intelligence demands multiple perspectives. Is the problem really that we do not adequately capitalize on the time we are given to run? Maybe. But what I mostly see (am I projecting here?) is people afraid to put all their irons in the fire. Afraid to let go of the rail. So we say: Ah, I need to run more. And out the door we go. Good! But WHY run more? It's the QUESTION that's important. And because we think we have the answer, we forget the question. The bright ones, the burning ones, the Gebs and the Halls and the Shorters and the Lindgrens: none of them had answers, but they had big, big questions.
Have you ever painted on a canvas? If you want to make the paint analogy then do it right. What's the first thing you do with a blank canvas before you paint? You apply a base...Gesso the canvas so that the cotton won't affect the pigment to follow. There's no secret to applying Gesso, you put it on thick and even. That's your base. If you have no base or a weak base, the weakness will show through on the finished painting
So take the time to put down a proper base. Go from there. When you need to get ready for the race, then starting thinking out your time and your runs and your schedule. You can plan then. In the meantime, go run and do it a lot. If you're in nothing more than a perpetual state of short term planning and race preparation, you'll spend a lot of time going nowhere.
I have now completed 57.5 miles in the last 7 days a new record for me!
I think I might get to 60 in a week depending on how much I run tomorrow and/or Sunday.
I feel strong and pretty invincible right now.
Goal Race July 26th...flat and fast course that I ran in 20:03 last year.
Run like a kid again!
I have now completed 57.5 miles in the last 7 days a new record for me! I think I might get to 60 in a week depending on how much I run tomorrow and/or Sunday. I feel strong and pretty invincible right now. Goal Race July 26th...flat and fast course that I ran in 20:03 last year.
Your honor can we have this message stricken from the forum please. This message had nothing to do with running more miles, painting or GU!
On a serious note good luck in a couple of weeks.
I am quite envious of MrPHinNJ log. +1 on the 200+ Months
I am quite envious of MrPHinNJ log.
+1 on the 200+ Months
This is at least the second reference to log envy directed at Mr. PH in the last two weeks.
Options,Account, Forums
Nah, Jeff (like me for that matter) is as slow as a piece of furniture .
Heh - but at least you both write well, to make up for that.
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.