On Wisconsin! (Read 2075 times)

Appears that in Wisconsin, only WI Dental PAC (WIDPAC) understands how the game is played?

Well, I will say that the comparison with Egypt is absolutely inapposite.  Egypt's protesters were not unionized, nor were they organized under leadership with any power comparable to that of American union leadership. 

You're right, of course, that the conditions are very different but the link may not be as far-fetched as it first appears. 

This is a pretty good example of where the efforts of labor unions often get overlooked.  From Solidarity in Poland to the movement in Tunisia, unions were/are key to virtually every "pro-democracy" effort.  (And, of course, unions sometimes frame their efforts as "workplace democracy," helping to see that workers have a voice in the workplace.)

Anyway, the labor movement was (and is) very important in Egypt.  One important spark for the revolution was a labor strike.  The entire April 6thYouth Movement emerged in solidarity with that labor action to support--ironically--public sector workers in state-owned industries.  In turn, labor unions worldwide marched at Egyptian embassies (including here in DC) to show support for the Egyptian pro-democracy effort.  This solidarity was not new.  In the US, the AFL-CIO has long supported Egyptian workers and independent unions in other repressive states.

Now, some Egyptian labor leaders are speaking out in support of Wisconsin workers. 

It's a small world after all.

BTW, I've appreciated reading this thread. Agree or disagree, it's helpful to see how others think about it.  I've also appreciated the effort to link to sources and information to introduce some facts beyond anecdotal accounts. 

I'm deeply saddened--and rather pessimistic--by this spreading conflict and the larger economic mess.  I worry that it will only exacerbate the increasing inequality that has marked the US in recent decades.

But, who knows, maybe it will also spark fresh thinking about how to revitalize both our political system and economy. Ironically, this song came up on the random shuffle on my run today.

I was thinking a bit more about these unions. iIt should be remembered that teaching has generally been a women's profession, and what seem like luxurious "benefits" from the perspective of a more traditional male private worker whose wife is at home taking care of the kids look more necessary from the point of view of a single or married working mother. Benefits like maternity leave, for example. Or a guaranteed pension plan that couldn't be taken away and controlled by the male member of the household.

These were often single working women who came from poorer backgrounds. Their job prospects were not nearly as mobile as men. They couldn't just pick up and find another job because there weren't a lot of other options out there. In that setting pension plans made sense and worked to meet the needs of a population that was and maybe is pretty different from the demographic that is posting on this board.

Teaching was a path for women to middle class independence. Factory work was a path for poor and less formally educated folk to middle class independence. Pension plans and health benefits were a path out of the uncertainty and day-to-day existence of poverty into a clear vision of the future. 

My sense is that this population still exists--pension plans provide security and stability that is necessary for leaving conditions of poverty. From the perspective of folks like us who post on this board, they seem like unnecessary benefits--who needs a pension plan when you have the ability to switch jobs, the skill to do it, the disposable income that it takes to move and relocate? You don't need it. They aren't for you. That's not the purpose. The purpose of these benefits was to do the progressive work of lifting people out of poverty into the middle class by stabilizing their future. This purpose should be remembered when we decide to do away with them.

 

 

From the perspective of folks like us who post on this board, they seem like unnecessary benefits--who needs a pension plan when you have the ability to switch jobs, the skill to do it, the disposable income that it takes to move and relocate? You don't need it. They aren't for you. That's not the purpose.

Us aren't all well paid professionals with lots of options.

I really don't care if public employees get a pension or if they  move to more of a 401k type model.  As long as it's funded up front as part of the employee's comp plan and the taxpayers aren't left trying to fund some big gap that grows exponentially into the future.  I equate pensions with making promises and pushing the liability forward for someone else to deal with (especially when every rational change has to be bargained with union lawyers), but I'm sure it doesn't have to be that way.

As for most teachers coming from poorer backgrounds I don't have any data on that but that has not been my experience at all.

I mean if between me and my employer the cost of crappy coverage is $10,000 a year than why have any coverage at all?  Because there is a chance I could be wiped out?  So what?  Life has no guarantee.  Is it better to bleed for 70 years or run the risk that you might be killed swiftly? 

My health insurance for my family of 6 costs $18,485 a year (1/4 of which I pay in payroll deductions) and I still wound up paying $4,300 in out of pocket last year in a year with no major illnesses and 1 minor ER trip for my daughter.  I hear you.  And my company self insures.

Healthcare is such a disaster it's probably not fixable without nukes.

I recon Jeff was speakin' of the 1-room teachers of pert near a century ago. 

My 50 year old co-worker in the cube next to me went to a one room country school until 9th grade.