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Using Heart Rate to determine effort (Read 1195 times)

RunFree7


Run like a kid again!

    I have been thinking of wearing a heart rate monitor to help me understand my effort better. My resting heart rate (the lowest I have seen) seems to be 48ish and my peak heart rate seems to be 184(the highest I have seen. For example I ran last night in 58 degree weather. Before starting I was getting a low reading of 56 (I was moving around) and at the end of my run I was up at 176 (my peak). I was not killing myself at the end but I would say I was giving good effort. So my question is, what should my heartrate be for easy runs? I am guessing for hard runs it should be as high as possible. I am also guessing that the hotter it is outside or more hills a path has the higher my heart rate will be as well. How do you guys/gals use heart rate during your training?
      2011 Goals:
      Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
      Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
    Scout7


    CPT Curmudgeon

      If you are going to seriously use Heart Rate to train, you should really conduct a field test to determine your Lactate Threshold HR, and establish your zones off that. The field goes like this: Warm up. On a track, or other level surface, start running. After the first 10 minutes, hit the lap button (assuming you have a lap button, otherwise, you want to start recording HR). Run for an additional 20 minutes. Stop the HR monitor from recording. Cool down. The 30 minutes of running should leave you feeling spent, like you wouldn't be able to go much further. Also, you want to maintain a steady pace. Your LTHR is the average HR for the 20 minutes. Here's some articles describing how to do the TT field test, what the different zones are, and what they are for. http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/determinezones.html http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/beinginthezone.html http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/steady1.html


      I've got a fever...

        Scout, is it helpful to determine your true max as well or can this be inferred from the LTHR? I remember reading that to find your max, run an 800 all out, rest 5 min, then do it again. Dead Sounds hellish, so if finding LTHR is good enough, that would be a relief.

        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

        Scout7


        CPT Curmudgeon

          You'll never really find your true max, anyway. That would mean that you're probably going to die soon. For training purposes, maxHR isn't really necessary, especially for endurance athletes. LTHR will work fine, then base target zone HRs off that. Also, most of the formulae are rules of thumb, and will work for some, but not others.
            You've gotten some good links and advice from Scout and Jeff which you should investigate, try, and/or refine to your own tastes. That said, I can tell you what I do (I've been using an HRM regulary since January this year). For easy runs I try to stay in the 60%-70% of my Karvonen Heart Rate Reserve (HRR). The formula is HRR = MaxHR - RestingHR so for you 184-48 = 136. Target heart rates are then THR = pct*HRR + RestingHR or 0.60*136 + 48 = 129.6 for 60% and 143.2 for 70%. For stamina/tempo runs I try to keep in the 70%-80% range (143.2-156.8 for you). Obviously, none of this is exact, depending on fitness, time of day, how you feel, weather, etc. So you should use this stuff as a guideline and adjust to your own circumstances. I will say that if you're hitting 176 (out of 184) at the end of an "easy" run you may be going hard. "Easy" really means easy and I've heard that being able to talk, but not sing, is "easy" pace. YMMV. For stamina/tempo runs (1 or 2 out of 5 runs per week) I try to start around 70% HRR and end around 80%. Some upward drift of HR is expected over time (due to fatigue, dehydration, etc.) but I am also trying start out slower and finish faster. Since I'm just starting out this is the extent of my experience so pay attention to Scout/Jeff and the other veterans and find out about LTHR as I suspect they are right about basing your training around it. Good luck!!
              First of all, how to use it in easy runs: a) Pick a pace that seems easy b) After a couple of minutes, your heart rate climbs to a steady state c) Try and stay in that value. If it starts to climb (significantly), that means the run is not 'easy' That said, far the best use of a HR monitor is using it in longer runs so that you don't overdo it and for measuring recoveries in intervals. I wouldn't really base my training off that completely. However, the HR is only the second thing to listen to. The first thing to listen to would be your muscles, joints and breathing. First of all, the max test is a bit silly. My highest max was 204, on a very steep, long, all-out hill effort. I routinely hit over 195 on those. On track intervals with incomplete recovery I only reach around 195 or so. I almost never reach 180 on steady-state flat runs. How I use it: If it's a recovery run (a run done between harder sessions), I try and stay around 70%, but I don't really need the HRM to tell me that. Some people just rest or cross-train instead of doing a recovery run. If it's a long endurance effort then 75-80% works nicely for me, and I can keep going for a few minutes at 90%. In any case, for longer efforts, the HR goes up significantly. I usually start around 150 and end around 170, going with the same speed all the time. So I suggest you try and just measure yourself during your normal runs. At what HR do you start feeling your legs getting sore? How long can you sustain a particular effort before losing speed? This will give you a guide for the future. If you find that, say, pushing it above a certain rate makes you have to stop after a minute or so, then that's an indication of where your 'endurance pace' limit lies. This will vary a lot with terrain and prior fatigue! I have also noticed my HR going steadily down for the same effort over the last few months, probably a result of both increased aerobic capacity and running efficiency. So, erm, yeah, possible. There is a random element, in there, but if you have no coach, following the Maffetone method might be worthwhile: http://www.rrca.org/resources/articles/slowdown.html


              Kill

                Also, check out the Low HR Training Group.

                Passion is a rather frightening thing because if you have passion you don't know where it will take you.

                 

                When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                jcasetnl


                  Thanks for all the info! I'm thinking of doing the disney half marathon so I might give these techniques a try.
                  RunFree7


                  Run like a kid again!

                    Thanks for all of the information about Heart Rates. I joined the group and hope to learn even more about this subject. It sounds like Heart Rate is not an exact science but can be used more as a gauge. I just ordered the garmin 305 and will be able to use that better to gauge my workout effort. I am not very good and going easy. I told myself I was going to run easy last night doing an 8:30 - 9:00 pace for 8 miles and ended up at 8:19 with 86 degree temperatures. I think in order to improve my running I have to learn how to take it easy. I think monitoring my pace and HR would be the best way to do this.
                      2011 Goals:
                      Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                      Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                      Bearcat, PLEASE, get a book and READ IT! Obtain some understanding FIRST, from some Professionals (Dr's, Coaches, Runners) before posting here agian. Just kidding WinkSorta. Save Face. "Know what I mean, Vern"

                      Ricky

                      —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

                      RunFree7


                      Run like a kid again!

                        What are you talking about? If it weren't for me you wouldn't have anything to look at or respond to right? I'm just trying to liven up the place. Smile Seriously though I read quite a bit about running. The problem is that not much of it is consistent. For example before reading your message I was just reading another article on "Long Run training for Marathons" The "Run injury free" with Jeff Galloway where you gradually build up by two to three miles a week up to a 26-28 mile run. "Marathoning the Hanson way" which has no runs longer then 16 miles but makes you run the two days prior to the long run so it feels like the last miles of the race. Then we have the "Train Less, Run Faster" method where you only run three times a week but at 60 to 75 seconds slower then your 10K pace and builds up to 2 - 20 mile runs. I can't tell you how many things I have read or seen about running so I thought I would try to get information from real runners and what works for them. Like I said before I gather a lot of information and then use bit's and piece's to make my own training plan. Everyone is different and I can't imagine everyone falls into the same plans. Some like to run 7 times a week some like to run 3 times a week. Some believe in VO max and some in VO dot. Honestly I don't know the difference. Then we have my new way of running a marathon every weekend starting 16 weeks before the race. So if I run 6 miles on Saturday - on Sunday I run 20. If I run 13 miles on Saturday I will run 13 miles on Sunday. Along with 3 other days of running with Wednesday being my speed workout. I still have 8 weeks to change my mind on this one though Big grin
                          2011 Goals:
                          Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                          Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                          Ask two runners the best way to train, and you'll get three opinions. Clowning around
                          How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2.
                            Ask two runners the best way to train, and you'll get three opinions. Clowning around
                            I think your estimate is a bit low. Big grin