RunningAHEAD - Topic: How do I improve my speed

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 7/3/2008 at 9:36 AM

Basic question I know, here is my problem. What is the science behind holding a fster pace for longer? I mean my recent 4 miler, I average 6:06 pace, but I can actually run quicker than this without much exhertion in the initial miles. Does this mean that in order to sustain the faster pace for longer i need to build more aerobically or anaerobically? I thought I had a good base? The only thing which stops me from continuing at a faster prolonged period is my breathing, my legs are fine.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

spaniel

Feeling the growl again

posted: 7/3/2008 at 9:45 AM

More miles, which will support doing more of them at a tempo-type pace. This will develop you aerobically. Unless you are racing the mile or under, you need to care a ton more about aerobic development than anaerobic.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

Purdey

Self anointed title

posted: 7/4/2008 at 6:59 AM

Run faster dude. IE run some decent length tempo runs. 4 - 8 miles ones. Throw in some lactate threshold intervals (mcmillan calls them cruise intervals) and you're there. I recommend checking out the McMillan running site - it'll sort you out. Oh yeah. And run more.

Phidippides

posted: 7/4/2008 at 7:02 AM
modified: 7/4/2008 at 7:02 AM

If you can, join a running club and get a coacn to help you with speed work on a track (remember only to do 10% of your total focus on speed work or you risk injury)

Champions are made when no one is watching

Purdey

Self anointed title

posted: 7/4/2008 at 7:25 AM
modified: 7/4/2008 at 7:29 AM

Quote from Phidippides on 7/4/2008 at 7:02 AM:

If you can, join a running club and get a coacn to help you with speed work on a track (remember only to do 10% of your total focus on speed work or you risk injury)

Do you mean do max of 10% of your weekly mileage on speed work? If so, that sounds about right. If you are running 40 mpw you could feasibly have 4 of those miles as intervals, or as a tempo run. However, I would add that those 4 miles could be the intervals and not include the warm up/down and recovery jogs. The remainder of your running should be easy runs with a longer run each week. That said, I'm certainly no expert. What speedwork do you do John?

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 7/4/2008 at 8:34 AM

So let me get thid right. I should only do 10% of my weekly mileage at speed? Is speed therefore defined as TEMPO/INTERVAL/THRESHOLD? So if i do 45mpw, I can do a max of 4.5 miles at speed? Thus, that would only mean pne speed session really, perhaps a 4.5 mile tempo. I couldnt therefore do intervals with it as that will go over the mileage?

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 7/4/2008 at 10:20 AM

Quote from Eddy on 7/4/2008 at 8:34 AM:

So let me get thid right. I should only do 10% of my weekly mileage at speed? Is speed therefore defined as TEMPO/INTERVAL/THRESHOLD?

Tempo/Threshold is not usually considered speed. It's quality, but not speed. The 10% applies to interval paced workouts, so far as I know. When I have a chance to open my Daniels, I'll check that.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

MrFinn

Prince of Fatness

posted: 7/4/2008 at 10:52 AM

Quote from Eddy on 7/3/2008 at 9:36 AM:

in order to sustain the faster pace for longer

Looking at just these words it sounds like you need to build endurance. More miles. One thing I that I found that helps me both physically and mentally is to fast finish a long run occasionally. I don't go nuts, maybe speed up by a half minute a mile or so the last 2 or 3 miles. This doesn't even get me down near tempo pace, but at the end of a long run I feel it. I find that this helps me finish races strong. I do this for one in every 3 or 4 long runs.

Not at it at all.

Roth Runner

posted: 7/4/2008 at 10:54 AM

One of the general theories out there is the following pyramid of training levels: 2% form (often as striders from 800-mile pace) 8% VO2 Max intervals (so 3-5k pace) 12% Threshold (Tempos down to 10k intervals, e.g. the cruise intervals mentioned) 78% Easy Personally I wouldn't run VO2 max intervals all the time as I'd break down, I'd just use them in a build up to a goal race. I'd do 20% Threshold work instead.

Roth Runner

posted: 7/4/2008 at 11:00 AM

I agree with Mr PHinNJ. Progression runs are a good thing too. Just remember not to cram too much intensity into your schedule. Easy miles look like they got you your latest PB , so they should be the foundation everything else is built on.

Save Cheevers

posted: 7/4/2008 at 12:13 PM

I don't know. You seem pretty fast to me dude. There's some sort of formula where you can see if your times for short distances match up with times over longer distances. I think it's this: You should be able to double your distance by slowing 16 seconds per mile. So, if you run 2 miles at 6 min/mile pace, you should be able to run 4 miles at 6:16. Like any formula, there's some variation, but if your 2 mile time is 5:30 min/mile and your 4 mile time is 6 min/mile, then you probably need to work on aerobic conditioning. You should be able to get to around 5:45. At least that's the theory. It's been pretty accurate for me. I borrow this from coach John Hadd, who's sort of a runner's board legend.

Scout7

posted: 7/7/2008 at 7:44 AM

Run more.

mikeymike

posted: 7/7/2008 at 8:09 AM

Quote from spaniel on 7/3/2008 at 9:45 AM:

More miles, which will support doing more of them at a tempo-type pace. This will develop you aerobically. Unless you are racing the mile or under, you need to care a ton more about aerobic development than anaerobic.

What he said. You're barely scratching the surface of your aerobic development.

Runners run

Phidippides

posted: 7/7/2008 at 8:57 AM

If you are running 40 mpw you could feasibly have 4 of those miles as intervals, or as a tempo run. However, I would add that those 4 miles could be the intervals and not include the warm up/down and recovery jogs. The remainder of your running should be easy runs with a longer run each week. That said, I'm certainly no expert. What speedwork do you do John? Correct --- what you say here is precicely what I am saying. i will tell you that my knowledge of speed work and track work is theoretical as I have read books and talked to people, but done little myself. I am in a running club and started doing speed work with them this past Wed and we go out one day per week and do 10 % of our total miles on the track on speed. This past week we ran 300m x 8 at a slightly quicker then 5K pace.........The running coach that comes on Weds to work with the group and brinings a different workout ever Wed.......If you are interested in specifically what we do each week - let me know and Ill post the weekly workouts for you......Speed work is all new to me too.....

Champions are made when no one is watching

Phidippides

posted: 7/7/2008 at 8:58 AM
modified: 7/7/2008 at 7:47 PM

Quote from Phidippides on 7/7/2008 at 8:57 AM:

If you are running 40 mpw you could feasibly have 4 of those miles as intervals, or as a tempo run. However, I would add that those 4 miles could be the intervals and not include the warm up/down and recovery jogs. The remainder of your running should be easy runs with a longer run each week. That said, I'm certainly no expert. What speedwork do you do John?

Correct Purdey--- what you say here is precicely what I am saying. i will tell you that my knowledge of speed work and track work is theoretical as I have read books and talked to people, but done little myself. I am in a running club and started doing speed work with them this past Wed and we go out one day per week and do 10 % of our total miles on the track on speed. This past week we ran 300m x 8 at a slightly quicker then 5K pace.........The running coach that comes on Weds to work with the group and brinings a different workout ever Wed.......If you are interested in specifically what we do each week - let me know and Ill post the weekly workouts for you......Speed work is all new to me too..... You are also a lot faster then I am and have a much better base...so what I may do would vary from your work out because we are at differet levels..

Champions are made when no one is watching

How do I improve my speed (Read 1356 times)