Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
It's a personal preference on dead flat vs rolling hills. I prefer the former, and I'd pick London over CIM. I haven't run London but it can't be any flatter than Chicago, and I loved that.
Dave
Hot Weather Complainer
Listening to some reviews on London, it sounds like the surface can be an issue with the cobblestones/tiles especially around Cutty Sark, with lots of corners. I know a few people didn't love all the corners on the new Christchurch course. When you're barely hanging on you'd want some long straights for sure.
As an amateur hobby jogger, preparing properly for a hilly course is pretty hard for me. It's now 30+ minutes for a drive to the hills and they aren't really gentle rollers. So I have dead flat or really challenging hills as my options, and only hills if I drive 1+ hours return. If I take the plunge with NYC it's going to be a big commitment. Maybe I need to move to Auckland.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Mmmm Bop
Listening to some reviews on London, it sounds like the surface can be an issue with the cobblestones/tiles especially around Cutty Sark, with lots of corners. I know a few people didn't love all the corners on the new Christchurch course. When you're barely hanging on you'd want some long straights for sure. As an amateur hobby jogger, preparing properly for a hilly course is pretty hard for me. It's now 30+ minutes for a drive to the hills and they aren't really gentle rollers. So I have dead flat or really challenging hills as my options, and only hills if I drive 1+ hours return. If I take the plunge with NYC it's going to be a big commitment. Maybe I need to move to Auckland.
Some people are wimps and will find an excuse with any course. I’ve run London 8 times (all sub3s) and it’s easy. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
So easy that people go out of their way to make it harder!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-65387616
Problem Child
NYC isn't legal for WR times either! So I wouldn't use that logic lol. I think it really depends on training. Like I said, if you train for hills, I do think it's easier than a dead flat course like London. Probably in the 1-2 minute category. The near guaranteed great weather is hugely helpful. I personally like the rolling hills nature of the course, regardless of training. The monotony of a dead flat course gets to me. Too much training with headphones I guess, I'm weak. RP - I've been digesting your reports here and there. Amazing as always. What's interesting to me is how you don't really dwell too much on how much pain you're in. I wonder if you have another gear! More importantly, is Marathon Scott joining us at CIM this year? Maybe you will finally get the chance to push Cal in a wheelchair at the start given how little he's training!
NYC isn't legal for WR times either! So I wouldn't use that logic lol.
I think it really depends on training. Like I said, if you train for hills, I do think it's easier than a dead flat course like London. Probably in the 1-2 minute category. The near guaranteed great weather is hugely helpful. I personally like the rolling hills nature of the course, regardless of training. The monotony of a dead flat course gets to me. Too much training with headphones I guess, I'm weak.
RP - I've been digesting your reports here and there. Amazing as always. What's interesting to me is how you don't really dwell too much on how much pain you're in. I wonder if you have another gear! More importantly, is Marathon Scott joining us at CIM this year? Maybe you will finally get the chance to push Cal in a wheelchair at the start given how little he's training!
1. I really don't have time to dwell on the pain. It will either get worse, go away, or remain the same and I'd deal with it. Typically I expect it to get worse, hope it goes away and plan on dealing with it for the rest of the day. I typically think it would be nice to have something to blame for the day going to shit, and quitting isn't an option so "ride this bitch till the wheels fall off" kind of becomes the way "we" handle things. Are you hurt, or are you injured because if you're hurt then you deal with it but if you're injured then you can pull off and quit right now.
2. There is a high possibility I sign up for CIM and I've been told many times "don't make any decisions about a race for 2 weeks." If I signed up right now I'd target a 2:50 *checks strava pace calculator* *nods* yeah a 2:50 marathon time. I'd like to really prove how much easier CIM but I'd also like to NOT race it. Yeah you read that right. 2:50 marathon vs not race it. because "fuck it. It's CIM. you come with it for CIM." You wanna fix your foot and pace me to some illogical bullshit and hold the GoPro while I do it? Might be fun. Maybe I'd take the thoughts in my head and say them out loud, or tell you stories about "this one time. At CIM..."
3 WR times have to pretty much be a loop course. I think the rule is the finish has to be within 50 meters of the start.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
This is true, people nitpicking about Christchurch having too many corners is also a bit silly. Maybe some people want a wide, flat, sealed road that runs straight for 42.2km.
And also, well done on the sub 3s! I had no idea.
RP - I say enter CIM with a sub 2:50 goal. The train is picking up speed, don't get off it if you don't have to.
The rule about a WR eligible course is a bit silly. Surely it can be done on a case by case basis. New York should always be eligible with any wind direction/speed.
Are we there, yet?
The criteria are finish can not be more than 50% of the race distance measured in a straight line from start to finish and the average drop in elevation between start and finish cannot be more than 1m per km.
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
That's a quick course and no doubt about it. There will always be corners, but there's also some good long straights too. A lot of the corners look relatively gradual and there's no hairpins, which do genuinely cost a few seconds since you have to slow right down.
There's a few cobblestones through Wynyard Quarter where the Auckland Marathon / Half runs. They're a bit odd underfoot but that's the extent of it. No impact on speed.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Damn it!! There goes my plan to run a World Record at Boston next year
Legs are coming back around nicely. Debating a 20 miler Sunday but 2 weeks out may be pushing it a bit. Maybe I'll just channel my inner RP...15 or 20 what's the difference just go for it!!
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
I think the rules for world records are fair enough. Point to point can be severely aided with a tail wind.
Kiptum obviously didn't find London too challenging. He ran the 2nd half in 59 mins 😳
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
RIP Milkman
I remember one of Kipchoge's recent WRs (but who can remember, he's set so many ) I read an article on how a sub 2:00 is just not possible on a normal course without aid. If I had to bet, I'd guess we do see it within the next 25 years.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
That seems like a strange statement to make, based on the progression in recent years. And hard to imagine it’ll take that long.
After Kiptums performance in the rain it definitely seems doable.
This is true, people nitpicking about Christchurch having too many corners is also a bit silly. Maybe some people want a wide, flat, sealed road that runs straight for 42.2km. And also, well done on the sub 3s! I had no idea. RP - I say enter CIM with a sub 2:50 goal. The train is picking up speed, don't get off it if you don't have to. The rule about a WR eligible course is a bit silly. Surely it can be done on a case by case basis. New York should always be eligible with any wind direction/speed.
THE GLORY DAYS!
I get why Boston and NYC aren’t eligible for a WR as wind direction can be an advantage. I remember Boston 2011 had a tailwind and a lot of folk from Runnersworld ran big PRs plus Ryan Hall ran a WR time iirc.
Mother of Cats
THE GLORY DAYS! I get why Boston and NYC aren’t eligible for a WR as wind direction can be an advantage. I remember Boston 2011 had a tailwind and a lot of folk from Runnersworld ran big PRs plus Ryan Hall ran a WR time iirc.
NYC is world record eligible. The start and finish are close enough.
Source (click on the link for list of road races).
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