Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Are we there, yet?
For half marathon specific training, what is the longest training run you would do given my mileage level (avg 30 miles per week this year)? I am thinking 16 miles with 5-6 miles at half marathon pace would be plenty for me. The Half is beginning of November in my race series and I don't have any plans of another marathon until sometime in 2024. I am thinking getting up to 20 miles is overkill for where I am at right now given my longest runs of the summer were at 11-13 miles due to lack of motivation running in the heat.
I wouldn't exceed 10 miles on 30 mpw. Of course that's not ideal, but then neither is 30 mpw. I might push that up to 12 if you;'e also getting in a 7-8 mile run with the rest being very short.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09 06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Andy - is there an opportunity to up your mileage? To me, a 16 mile LR on 50+ mpw is ideal. That’s a big jump from 30, but maybe 13-14 on 40-45 mpw is possible?.
Dave
What have people done for in-race fueling for warm races? Or does anything help? I usually do 4 gels for a marathon, but thinking about upping it to 5. And I usually take a cup of water at every aid station, sometimes 2 later on, and intersperse a few Gatorades. Maybe I should take 2 cups right from the start, and more frequent Gatorades. I suppose I shouldn’t go overboard on electrolytes if I’m not used to it.
One thing I’m not doing is taking my shirt off. Probably.
What have people done for in-race fueling for warm races? Or does anything help? I usually do 4 gels for a marathon, but thinking about upping it to 5. And I usually take a cup of water at every aid station, sometimes 2 later on, and intersperse a few Gatorades. Maybe I should take 2 cups right from the start, and more frequent Gatorades. I suppose I shouldn’t go overboard on electrolytes if I’m not used to it. One thing I’m not doing is taking my shirt off. Probably.
I'm not sure how much I change my fueling. But you could certainly go for it. The only thing I did differently for the past two, which were both over 60 F, was I made it a point to dump water on my head and torso very frequently at water stops. Maybe also make sure you are getting plenty of electrolytes. Not just that day but the day before as well.
RP So are you still thinking about mailing me beer ? Does anyone in your area sell Eisbocks? Have you had one before? If not then I recommend it.
If ice is available, use that on neck and head, or even on the inside of your wrists for cooling. Ice bandanas, a bandana folded in half and sewn to form a pocket to place ice, tied around your neck also helps.
Hot Weather Complainer
Hagley Park Run 5km
Quick report on this as it's not a goal race, but more a chance to fire up the Vo2 Max system a week out from the half in Melbourne. I came in a little fatigued at the start of my taper but not too bad. My coach said I could probably still PR but probably not hit my potential.
Hagley Park has reverted to the summer course which includes an awkward start and finish across grass which is pretty dry but still has mud patches and tree roots. It does create a nice big area to congregate before and after the race but I wish they'd use the winter course all year round.
20 minute warm up then some strides and off to the start. I wanted to go out at 3:45/km, which is PR pace and hold it perhaps with a kick. Mindful of the grass I made a fast start and when we reached the nice smooth path I glanced at my watch which said 3:20 pace. I thought that was probably not accurate but the amount I was feeling it after 500 metres told me to calm it down. I eased back and let a few people go - there were about 15 in front of me in a field of 500. I was mindful that I needed a good start - last time out my first km was 3:56 in the cold and I never got that time back. It was cold for Spring (my car was iced over) but by 8am was a nice running temperature.
First km flashes up in 3:47 which was actually slower than I expected given how I was feeling and the fast start. Lots of negative thoughts entered about why this wasn't a good day but I tried to get rid of them. The second km is into a slight breeze and I end up sitting in behind a guy who had had a very fast start. As with my previous Hagley Park Run, I passed a few who went out hard in the second km. The next km flashes up in 3:45 so I'm thinking I'm on PR pace but the negative thoughts about how I felt continued. I reminded myself I'd felt gassed at 3km last time and finished very strong. Round the first 45 degree turn and across the park and I'm passing a few now, but not really lifting my pace. I feel like I'm pushing hard, I don't feel like I have a good rhythm at all. Through 3km in 3:42 but my first thought is not that I'm happy I've lifted the pace, but that I may blow out and might need to slow down. By now I know the feeling off being slightly off is real but I tell myself there's less than 8 minutes of hard work left.
Down the Harper Ave side with the cherry blossoms in full bloom, and I'm not passing so much as exchanging places now. I just want to get to the second 45 degree turn which means 1.2km to go. I look at my watch, 1.35km to go. Counting it down all the way now. Through 4km in 3:52 and I'm wondering if I can keep it under 4 minutes for the last km. I remind myself that the pain is very short term and try to open up the legs. 600 metres to go, my watch says I'm at 3:40 pace so I know if I hold it together I'll PR. 300 metres to go and I'm approaching the grass. I follow the others close to the lake where there is mud and bumps before the grass gets longer in the last 50 metres. I push all the way and into the chute just behind another guy the race director on the microphone yells "Who wants it more???" and I think to myself I just want to stop. Check the watch and see the finish is at 4.97 so I run through to 5km, and get yelled at by 2 ladies trying to hand me a barcode. Last km is 3:40 watch says 18:44 and I later get the official time of 18:40. That will be the time I take - I didn't take the GPS time at Foster Park when the distance was 5.08km so I will trust the measuring wheel.
Strange feeling to PR and feel so off which may just be an indication that my PR was soft. Still, really happy with a gritty performance and a good sharpener for the big one next week.
Stats: 11th overall, first in age group, age graded score of 76.52%. The Hagley Course record was broken by the winner in 14:27, which is one second off the NZ Park Run record.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Problem Child
I'm not sure how much I change my fueling. But you could certainly go for it. The only thing I did differently for the past two, which were both over 60 F, was I made it a point to dump water on my head and torso very frequently at water stops. Maybe also make sure you are getting plenty of electrolytes. Not just that day but the day before as well. RP So are you still thinking about mailing me beer ? Does anyone in your area sell Eisbocks? Have you had one before? If not then I recommend it.
I’ll have to check and get back to you about eisbocl. If there is something in particular just let me know and I’ll put effort into it.
Hot fuel the only hot runs I’ve done were ultras and even then I stuck to my plan even if I didn’t feel like eating. Road races is a Maurten every 45 minutes. Ultras are food every hour, gel every hour, separated by 30 minute intervals so I’m taking something in every 30 minutes. Last ultra it also included 12 ounces of Mountain Dew at one aid station and ginger ale at the next. The ginger ale was for my stomac to stay settled and the Mountain Dew or red bill was sugar, caffeine, and delicious. I tried to drink a bottle between aid stations.
at Boston I realy had to pay attention to drinking. I’d never had a race with water every single mile. Over hydrating can be just as damaging as being dehydrated.
andy I second what WC said above. 10 mile limit. Ideally 40 mile weeks with a medium long run mixed in during the week. Even if it’s at bedtime.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Dorothea
My two cents are similar to Mmerkle and Wcrunner. I probably wouldn't change too much, especially since you're dealing with 50s-60s weather, but the dew point is hella low. I guess my best advice is beyond fueling: embrace the suck. Don't let thoughts of kiwi points get to your head. Especially looking at the humidity, you're still running in good conditions. I honestly would not change too much. It's possible to run well even with moderate heat, but you need to stay hydrated and keep your core temperature as cool as possible. It's definitely possible to over-hydrate, and that can end your race faster than dehydration. I would stick to water stops every 30 minutes add a cup of Gatorade/electrolyte drink every other one. Stick to the same solid/gel fueling strategy that you're used to. If you're noticing yourself feeling too warm and there's cold water, get some on the head and back of the neck as often as possible. Be aware this is going to make your shirt heavy, and may eventually trickle to your shoes, but if you're sweating a lot anyway, it will be hard to tell the difference.
My experience is that marathons don't offer ice, but if they do, yes, stuff that everywhere. Again, make sure.you're well anti-chafed.
Don't know if you'll even still see this, but all the best, Dave!
Hoping to circle back this week as well, as I know there's also a few race reports to catch up. Congrats on that smashing PR, Steve. I'm excited to see what you do at your half!
Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.
Last race: May 18, Walk In My Shoes 5K, 21:15.4 in 162 Kiwi point; 2nd overall.
Mother of Cats
First of all - GOOD LUCK (I know I'm late).
Second - for me personally I emphasize salt consumption the day before and the morning of, as well as during the race. That seems to be the trick
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Thanks everyone! Here we go!
Merkle - Great write up! Killer progression, and I'm not sure how you manage to eat blocks during a race like that. I really prefer not to chew anything unless I'm at ultra-pace.
I forgot to answer this. I put them in the back of my mouth and use my molars to chew them. I sort of alternate between chewing a few times and taking a few breaths. It's awkward but so are gels in my opinion. They coat your mouth and then sit heavily in your stomach. I've found that chews are more gentle on my stomach.
Steve Nicely done on the PR. You could have a really big PR in the half next week. I hope you do.
Let's go Dave!
3:14:03 for PR, 1st AG, with 1 min negative split. Strong finish despite the heat, very happy.
Congrats on the PR and 1st AG Dave!
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Yes! Great result and well earned
Dave - congrats - that has to be a great feeling! Can't wait for the race report.
Steve - great race report and congratulations on the PR. I still find it amazing that people are able to run past the finish line and keep running until their watch reads a certain distance. No way I could do that.