Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 573 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

     

     

    Jmac - good to see you back.  You didn't ask my opinion, but I'll give it anyway - I think that going ahead and running on it is a solid option at this point.

     

    Two articles that may be worth reading:

    Navigating the Pain Trail – Tissue Sensitivity, Defusing the Threat – iRunFar

    The Remodel Project: An Inner Look at Injured Tissue Healing – iRunFar

     

    I remember you sending one of these articles a couple of years back, but I read the other one this time, and it makes a lot of sense and is exactly what I'm thinking. Honestly, when you're 3 months into an injury from effectively 0 running (i was running 3 miles once every 10 days), it doesn't make sense that continued rest is going to help. It's almost like I want to run on it to stress it, provide micro-tears if needed, and let the rehealing process begin. I wonder if some scar tissue has formed on my foot and it's just stuck not doing any of the secondary healing like the article describes.

     

    I actually have a decent case study. My shoulder was hurting for about 2 months this summer, and I worked on it with PT as I had a big golf trip coming up in late August (the injury was probably caused by golf, and definitely hurt for the first few swings whenever I went golfing). This trip was fairly big too - I was going to be playing 2 rounds a day for about 4 straight days, when I normally only play about once every other week. So I was terrified it was going to get really bad on me during the trip.

     

    You know what happened? The first day it did hurt, and by the end of the trip, I had zero pain. Never even noticed it during warm ups. It's like my body needs to be told everything is okay for the pain to go away (and actually aligns exactly with these articles)

     

    At this point, what do I have to lose? I've already taken 3 months off from running, there's clearly no structural damage, and if it fails, then I'll just stop running again and try another few months down the road. But I have a case study of this type of thing working for me before, so I'll give it a go.

     

    RP - how did it go??

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

       RP - how did it go??

      TL;DR....

      It went great until it didn't. We missed a BQ as well as a PR, grabbed a backpack and a jacket (higher quality than the one you received) and went home.

       

      What do you have to lose in relation to your foot? How about all the speed you have had for years. Go run, see what happens and risk being one of those guys which struggles to break 3:15 in the marathon. The mental depression of accepting you'll never achieve the things you took for granted and possible walking with a limp/cane because it was more important to go run than wait until things didn't hurt. I mean, you area kind of a spreadsheet reviewer guy who solves his Qwordle daily so I'm totally going to understand you've in-depth knowledge of Anatomy and Physiology based on something you read on the internet from your less than imaginary friends. :SmilingFlipoffEmoji:

       

       

      EDIT:

      I believe our silent friend dpschumacher scored himself a sub-2:42. He was on that Moose Mug train.

       

      TDP on race day was in the 138 scores. This is actually typical for CIM.

      In 2019 when I broke 3 it was 147. LMFAO!!!!

      https://findmymarathon.com/weather-detail.php?zname=California%20International%20Marathon&year=

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      VDOT 53.37 

      5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

      CommanderKeen


      Cobra Commander Keen

        Mark - Congrats on the race and a great kick, and congratulations to Miss 6 as well.


        RP - Bummer the lady you were pacing (is it fair to call you an "escort" now?) had issues, but well done all the same.
        Maybe you could run like Nick if you were doped to the gills, too. Have you considered trying that?


        Steve - It seems like your training is progressing along quite nicely.


        Flavio - I'm a bit gutted for you, but am thrilled that you've gotten some things figured out that point toward a great next marathon.


        Cal - Yet another great performance, congratulations.

         

        Jimmy - Welcome.


        JMac - I'm looking forward to once more seeing Strava posts from you.


        Nothing notable from my end, yet again. 51 easy miles and I'm now (barely) into month two of weight training. Is getting jacked going to take as long as or longer than it took me to run sub 3? Gee, I hope not.

        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

         

        runethechamp


          I don't plan to post much in this thread, but I have to ask you JMac what exactly is hurting in your foot/heel area? Then I'll give you my (un)educated opinion based on my experiences.

          5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

           

          Getting back into it

            Flavio - thanks for the detailed report! Sorry you had a rough day. Marathons are hard. The End. Props to just finding in yourself to push through to the finish. You're there so you might as well, regardless of how much you have to slow down, unless you risk aggravating some kind of injury. But oh man it's discouraging once all your goals are shot to hell, especially if you went in thinking you might have a really good day.

             

            You had a great cycle, and a great tuneup half. I haven't been here long enough to know your history (and you have no log here) - how many marathons have you done? Getting the hang of marathons takes years, for most of us. (There are some freak exceptions here, but you guys can pipe down.) Years of training cycles with marathon-level mileage & workouts, and years of experience racing the distance. It took me 4 years and 7 marathons before I came close to even splits, then another year & 2 more marathons before going negative. And that #9 finally got me into Boston too. Not sure whether you were still feeling the after-effects of your illness, but everything has to go right to have a good marathon, and it doesn't take much going wrong to send things spiraling out of control. Congrats on no cramps anyway!

             

            And I am also a fan of easy pre-race logistics. I mean, who isn't, but I will pay extra for that; I often book a hotel before actually registering for a race (of course I ensure the hotel is refundable).

            Dave

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Keen is he really doping or is his increase in performance just too amazing to be believable? I think even John Cena has been accused of using steroids to enhance his performance.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 53.37 

              5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                They said that about Jose Canseco too. I still cannot believe it and therefore have stopped following these rumors! Haha

                HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                 

                2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                flavio80


                Intl. correspondent

                  Jmac - Apologies for asking the dumb questions, but:
                  a) Have you tried working with a different PT yet ? Maybe try 3 or 4 specialists and try to compile their theories into one central root cause analysis ? I have done that before and it helped.
                  My stupid theory is that you have an underlying cause that triggers this issue. It could be nerve damage. The issue might even be on your spine, there's a lot of road in between your brain and the foot fascia nerves.
                  b) Have you tried running with different shoes ?

                   

                  Cal - Amazing performance once again! All that hard work you put in over the years is still there paying dividends.
                  The reason I was slowing down was because the pace was too hard for me, and even as I was slowing down it kept becoming hard again.
                  I was definitely not 100%, I'll list some signs below of that.

                  Mental strength can be a limiter in that it can lead you to have a poorer performance than you could have done otherwise.

                  It can't make you heal from sickness or run faster than you trained though.

                   

                  DW - No, it didn't have any extra impact on me at least. I've trained almost exclusively on warmer weather.
                  Sorry to hear the new meds didn't work after all.

                   

                  WCRunner - Ugh, sorry to hear about that, here's my wishes your body fights it well.

                   

                  Mark - Thanks for the race report, looking from afar, it seems you had a period of less than ideal fitness for maybe a couple of years but now seem to be trending faster and faster of late ?

                   

                  JBlack - Welcome aboard! I hope you stick around and we all get to know you better.

                   

                  Dave - You are absolutely right. Marathons are extremely hard. It's easy to get distracted and see other people have an apparently easier time and then think my way should be that easy as well.
                  As with everything in life, nothing is granted, and everything takes 10_000 times more effort than you expect.


                  Me -

                  I do not think I was 100% for this race. I'm not sure exactly what it is that I have.

                  I know that I have full blown cold symptoms including sore throat, cough, phlegm, tiredness, headaches, etc.

                  I remember when I was close to KM 34 when I was approaching an aid station and I was breathing super hard, think end of a 5K breathing hard, and I started to feel some light dizziness.
                  So I decided to walk through the aid station.
                  Then I grabbed a bottle of water and took a sip. Then I had a bout of cough for about 20 seconds, at the end of that one of my coughs launched a big ball of phlegm into my right hand.
                  I then had to wash my hand as the phlegm was not washing out easily.

                   

                  I also know that in the days leading to the race I had unusual muscle soreness and chest tightness.

                  I think my training block was going okay-ish until that week where I hit the 76 miles.

                  A lot went downhill after that.

                  I got a lot of weird muscle soreness the week after, then had a weird left pectoralis minor injury on the week after that.

                  My performance on the workouts suddenly got considerably worse.

                  I remember I went to my cousin's birthday party around November 24th and I had to speak only a bare minimum because I had a very sore throat. I still had a store throat through Tuesday on race week.

                  I also read about exercise induced bronchoconstriction on Let's run, though I don't have the worst symptoms like wheezing or a hard time breathing, I do have some. It's probably not that, but it's something that takes longer than a cold to heal and causes chest tightness, cough and general cold symptoms, which is what I have ever since that fateful 76 mile week.

                  I had chest tightness from KM 5 in the race as well.

                  Most of these symptoms I had ignored cause I could carry on with my life and attributed them to taper madness.

                   

                  For the record, it could all also be performance-related anxiety. But I think that's a lower probability because:

                  a) I don't know of anxiety causing cold symptoms

                  b) I was doing fine with all my workouts until that big week, and then suddenly started struggling with all my workouts from then on.

                   

                  So yeah, I have something which I don't know what it is, it's impacting my running, and I don't have the slightest clue what caused it.

                   

                  It's likely a combination of things.

                   

                  Please notice this as well: When I talk about MP it's not the same MP you guys are talking about.

                  My MP is 6:50 per mile/4:14 per km, my HMP from my last HM race was 6:13 per mile/3:45 per KM.

                  My MP is slower, if I were in 1h22 fitness I should most certainly not struggle to run 2x 6miles at MySlowerMP.

                   

                  I hope to collect more data over the next weeks so I can try to figure this out. I'm not even sure which doctor I could go to for this.

                  A regular pneumo will hear my breathing and tell me my lungs are fine, just go home.

                   

                  One last thing, I think I did a lot of things right in this training period. I'm happy about that. I think I have accumulated some excellent levels of fitness, which I should be able to use at some point in the near future.

                  For now, the priority is getting healthy again.

                  PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  flavio80


                  Intl. correspondent

                    Ok, I'll continue my monologue:

                    One possible simple answer is allergies + gastric reflux combination.

                    Reflux causes near constant damage to the throat which combined with the usual allergic reactions (think rhinitis) it can lead to most of the symptoms.

                    Something else then would account for the unusual muscle soreness I have sometimes.

                    I guess I need to visit an allergist. I did do a battery of (very expensive) blood exams on common allergy markers but it came back negative for all.

                    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                    Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

                    Tool to generate Strava weekly

                    wcrunner2


                    Are we there, yet?

                      Ok, I'll continue my monologue:

                      One possible simple answer is allergies + gastric reflux combination.

                      Reflux causes near constant damage to the throat which combined with the usual allergic reactions (think rhinitis) it can lead to most of the symptoms.

                      Something else then would account for the unusual muscle soreness I have sometimes.

                      I guess I need to visit an allergist. I did do a battery of (very expensive) blood exams on common allergy markers but it came back negative for all.

                       

                      That could explain it, but have you retested for COVID or RSV or even the flu.

                       2024 Races:

                            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                            05/11 - D3 50K
                            05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                       

                       

                           


                      Dad on the run.

                        Some of you guys have speeds that just seem crazy to me. Flavio, your 6:** m/m marathon pace for example. I can't even run a 5k at that pace, heck, I'm not even sure I could currently run a mile in that time.

                         

                        Also, thanks to everyone who gave me a welcome, looking forward to following all of you and hopefully staying encouraged.

                         

                        I did do day 1 of my 8 week training plan, I am using Runna as I have watched a lot of really good things about the app. If anyone is interested feel free to follow me on Strava and I will happily follow back Smile.

                         

                        Just look for Jimmy Black - Pell City, AL.

                        Chasing the sub 20 5K.

                        flavio80


                        Intl. correspondent

                           

                          That could explain it, but have you retested for COVID or RSV or even the flu.

                          I haven't, but I don't think it would change much in terms of troubleshooting this.

                          It seems to me that the combination of reflux + allergies + especially this time of the year, the cold and humid weather here in Porto, just guarantees that I'll be at least half sick for most of the time from mid November until early January.

                           

                          JBlack - One step at a time. We're all turtles if compared to the elites, or even the faster people in this thread.

                          When Marky Mark is late for the bus and runs to the bus stop he's running faster than our mile pace 😁

                          I wanted to comment on your long term objectives. It's cool to have something long term to aim for, but I'd recommend you have intermediate SMART goals.

                          If you recently ran a 5K in 29 minutes and change, maybe target a sub 28 next ? That way you can track your progress along the way.

                          Trying for something too far out of your reach can be very frustrating and it might derail your consistency.

                          Also, there's absolutely no way of knowing how fast you're gonna reach these long term objectives. Maybe you have outstanding genes and you're gonna reach them in 3 months, maybe you're never gonna reach them.

                          PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                          Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

                          Tool to generate Strava weekly

                            Flavio always gets these last minute infections of some sort. Bummer you weren’t at 100% in Balencia. Maybe you emptied the tank during that week and the body reacted by stepping on the brakes…

                             

                            how about Sevilla? I heard thats the fallback option for many and its in Feb so cool temps almost guaranteed!

                            HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                             

                            2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!


                            Dad on the run.

                               

                              If you recently ran a 5K in 29 minutes and change, maybe target a sub 28 next ? That way you can track your progress along the way.

                               

                               

                              Yea, I'm just basing my next 5k time off of the running app that I am currently using. Not sure if you have ever used Runna or not but it gives you an estimated 5k time based off your current 5k time and the running plan that it creates for you. Maybe I will hit that goal in 8 weeks when I do a 5k time trial, maybe I won't. I'll be ok either way because I know that it will certainly be faster than where I am at today.

                              Chasing the sub 20 5K.

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                Since it doesn't look like I'll be writing a race report...

                                 

                                Something I tried out this time was hitting my lap button after the first mile to get the auto lap to NOT flash on the screen when approaching the mile. I wanted to approach the mile and see the elapsed time as we crossed the mile marker to compare it to the 3:34 pace bib I had. I was targeting an 8:09/mi pace for the whole race. I'd used the Garmin Pace Pro and a previous CIM to figure out I needed 8:09-8:10/mi to run the course in 3:34:30ish time. The application was apparently showing 8:12/mi as expected. When I look at the actual race results it says we were going faster, but I guess now it's looking a little better. I don't like the 8:06/mi pace at 10k and I remember being behind the 3:34 band then around 13 I was right on time, and at 13.1 I was somehow 10 seconds ahead. I had to tell my runner to slow down a few times, then pull her up some of the longer hills where lots of runners would slow down. It went to shit around mile 14. 14-17 is just a long uphill grind. Nothing really hard, but when your hamstrings aren't there it sucks. It isn't rolling. It's about a 3% grade for 3 miles. We had to walk for a few seconds, and I got her running again HOPING she could make it. We were only 30 seconds behind and I told here it wasn't over because there was a LOT of race left. I actually thought there was more downhill after this section. There wasn't and she became sad and apologetic.

                                I really did believe she could have run a 3:35. She just ran a 21:30 5K at 4,500 ft elevation where we live and she has run CIM a few times. I also realized later due to her birthday the qualification is different. When I was 38 and running CIM I was qualifying for when I was 40. My birthday is a week or two before Boston so I aged up before the race. Hers is after so she only gets one year added. So next year she'll be going for the 40 year old qualification time (3:40) and if her plans are lined up there will be lots of focus on this one BQ attempt which is also a PR. Not a year of run this, run that, run everything you can find for fun then run some more.

                                 

                                oh yeah, 2024 registration is open

                                https://runsra.org/california-international-marathon/registration/

                                $185 if you want the option to transfer you bib.

                                $215 if you want to defer you race.

                                 

                                The internet says they ran out of medals and food at the end.

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 53.37 

                                5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22